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Thread: Nightly bleach chores?...

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    Nightly bleach chores?...

    Hello all:

    I am a newbie at the BBB method, and just went thru Pool School. Great stuff!

    I have always had a problem keeping enough FC in the pool. FC reads just about "zero" all the time, even though I have my Rainbow chlorinator turned all the way up to the max. At my low flow rates, I'm lucky to go thru one or two pucks a week. I could increase the run time of the pump, but I don't want to do that just yet.

    One day, I hope to install a SWG, if my pump can take the additional head. That is uncertain based on what little knowledge I have of what it adds to the TDH.

    Which leads me to my question...do you all go out to the pool every night, take readings, and then pour in the appropriate amount of bleach? Or am I missing something? Seems like a lot of work, but that is what I am about to do, I suppose.

    Thanks,
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    When the weather was consistently sunny and hot I would only do a basic OTO test every other day. 99% of the time I had to add 4 ppm bleach per day and 11 oz of acid every other day. If the weather changed or was cloudy I would do an additional test that day. With the cooler weather now I have not been adding as much bleach, and yesterday I had to add none. This is my first year using BBB method. BTW - I would usually do a full test about once every 2 to 3 weeks.
    Approx 11K Gal. 10'X30' Semi free-form IG - 6 ' raised spa w/6 jets - 10' circle sun shelf with 1 bubbler - Waterfall - 3 / 1.5 HP pumps - Polaris 280 Cleaner - 3 Pentair Color LED Intellibrite Lights - Pentair 400K Master Temp - 2 Valve Actuators - 5 Fiberstar Mini Laminars - 1 Fiberstars 2004 Illuminator - 2 Skimmers - 6 Returns - Caribbean Blue Pebble Tech - 600+ sq ft kool decK - Auto Fill - 2 Boston Acoustics VOYA RK5 Outdoor Rock Speakers - 2 TIC Corporation TFS5CN 6.5-Inch 150-Watt Terra-Forms Rock Speakers - Apple Airport Express - 1 Awesome View.

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    For me:
    At first I tested daily and made adjustments based on those readings. After awhile I started to learn my pool and get a good feel for how much chlorine it used, how fast the pH would rise, etc... At that point I spaced out my testing to every other day, but still added chlorine since I had a good idea of my usage. Eventually I tested about every 2-3 or if something unusual occurred. (heavy storm, lots of debris in pool, pool party, etc...), again, I added chlorine daily based on expected usage. For things like pH, TA, CYA, CH, etc... I only make adjustments in response to readings. As far as the other tests, I still do those on the normal pool school schedule.http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-..._care_schedule

    The big thing is you don't want the pool's balance to get away from you, or at least you need to be prepared for the consequences if it does.

    In your case, you probably need to shock your pool. Going to 0 chlorine regularly might mean your chlorinator is producing enough chlorine but its all being used up to fight a nascent algae problem. see the pool school article Shock Your Pool http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool

    If you could post a full set of test results we could help you better. Also it would help answer some of your questions regarding adding a SWG and other water chemistry questions.
    19,600 gal, Vinyl, Grecian L, StaRite Dura-Glas 1 HP pump, 3/4hp booster, Pentair Clean and Clear 420 Cartridge filter
    The Pool Cleaner 4x, PoolSkim

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Thank you. Right now, all I have is test strips, which seem to be ridiculous as far as usefulness. That's probably why I've been struggling. Just yesterday I did order the TFT100 test kit (I think that's what is was called). Hopefully I will get it in a few days and I can start to post some meaningful data.

    You guys are great. I really, really appreciate this site.
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Magnew,

    The testing and adding chlorine will seem like a real chore but only for a few weeks. Just like the others, you will learn the "rhythm" of your pool and what needs to be done to your water will be almost second nature.

    I'll bet you need to shock, also, but why don't you wait for your kit to get to you (it shipped today) so you can post those results. Everyone here will help you get your water in good shape.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Once you get your test kit, you will want to test daily for pH and FC, also CC. The other things don't vary so fast so testing weekly or monthly will be OK. But do test a lot at first.

    You will probably find that like Puffin and I, eventually you will find a rhythm that works well for you. I try to test every other day, maybe every 3rd in winter. Since I happen to know that one large jug of bleach is exactly 4 ppm in my pool I try to let it swing that much, down to whatever my minimum is, then up 4 ppm to the target. This is not really best, daily is best, but I just am not able to manage that.

    On your test kit box there is a chart that you can use to keep up with the data. Some of us have created larger charts in spreadsheets to track not only the test data but what we added and what we were targeting. Also other info may be helpful to record, like big rain storms, or pool parties, things that are likely to affect the normal swings of testing.

    Here in my pool, never closed, in a normal rainy winter the CYA and CH and TA will drop off slowly since rainwater has none of that. In the summer the tap water has very high TA so as I add fill water, it increases TA which messes with the pH eventually. It takes a while to discover that sort of stuff.

    Once you get the pool totally under control and sparkly all the time, you will develop an eye for that dullness that precedes a problem. But always test and keep the records. You will be amazed at how easy your pool will be to manage.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnew
    ... I have my Rainbow chlorinator turned all the way up to the max. At my low flow rates, I'm lucky to go thru one or two pucks a week.
    It sounds like you are using Trichlor pucks. For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.

    One 8-ounce 3" Trichlor puck in your 9500 gallon pool would add 5.8 ppm FC and 3.5 ppm CYA. Most outdoor residential pools exposed to sunlight use around 2 ppm FC per day -- some a little less down to 1.5 ppm, some a little more up to 3 ppm or so. So your 1-2 pucks is not enough chlorine to keep up with that lost from sunlight. Also, over time the buildup of CYA will make the chlorine less effective and with the low FC level algae can grow increasing chlorine demand even further. When you get your TF-100, test your CYA level. Unless you have a lot of water dilution, the CYA level may be high from exclusive use of Trichlor pucks.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Hi Magnew, Welcome to TFP!

    Way to go! You got one of the best kits for doing your own testing. (TF-100)
    Follow the instructions in the lid and might be confusing at first, just re-read and try again.
    If you have problems, just come back here and post and we can help.
    Once you have a full set of test results, post them here and we can help with what to do, and in what order to do it.
    This is what I did and IS the reason I'm also a lifetime member. The help is great, scientifically based to get the proper results with your pool water doing exactly what it is told to do.

    My pool is very easy to take care of now and I also suffer from "Poolsparklits"!

    Chuck
    Swim n Play 21' round, expandable 72" liner, 6FT deep center, buried 14", 12,750 Gallons
    Waterway 1HP-2 speed with 22" Sand filter
    TF-100 test kit
    Thanks to TFP my pool is perfect all the time :party:
    I now suffer from Sparklypoolitis! :whoot:
    I am a Platinum contributor because I want everyone who comes here to Trouble Free Pool to have the same success that I enjoy with my pool and family.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Get your water chems right and like stated above you'll get used to what it needs. Also, you can look into a Liquidator which will keep your chlorine right for you for at least a week and you only have to mess with bottles a few times a month. That is what I did since I wasn't ready to make the plunge into SWG and salt.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    OK, I have my test kit and have some data! Sweet!

    Just to recap, I have been flying by the seat of my pants regarding chemistry for the last year and a half (test strips). I replaced my 1 1/2 hp pump with a 1/2 hp pump, and my filter pressure has been going from 8 to 18 in less than a week. Getting tired of cleaning the filter weekly. My main man Mark said I am probably fighting an algae problem, so here I am.

    I have been adding about a gallon of bleach every night this week, and the test strip the next day has been showing zero FC. Tonight, the test strip shows that I do have FC 24 hours after adding bleach, and the "real" test results from the kit are as follows:

    FC 9
    CC 2
    TC 11
    pH 6.9
    TA 100
    CH 460
    CYA 130
    Temp 66

    I have used nothing but tabs until this week. Every test I have ever done, including at the pool store, has shown that I have zero FC. Tonight is the first night that any test has shown FC, and that is only after adding a gallon of bleach every night for the last five nights.

    Not sure what to do next. Attack the pH, CH, or CYA?

    I am very, very excited to have some data I can work with, some knowledge from one pass at Pool School, and knowing that all you folks have my back!
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    I'll respond a little as there will be more troops behind me!
    The CC at 2 is a indicator of contaminants, this should be .5 or less like my readings are now.
    The filter plugging up that fast is most likely from algae.

    This needs a pool school shock process done...
    pool-school/shocking_your_pool
    Now the hard part, the CYA is through the roof at 130 ppm and might be higher than you think.
    Try and dilute the test with 50/50 with tap water and pool water and redo the test.
    Post back here with the results of that test.
    With your CYA that high, the shocking process would be very difficult to do, if not almost impossible to do in a timely manner and expense. Your shock chlorine would have to be really high as seen in this chart:
    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
    Over 39 ppm chlorine level just to maintain shock!
    I would think you need to do a drain (or a couple partial drain) or reverse osmosis to get the CYA down to a more manageable level.
    PH is a little low and can be adjusted once you get a CYA in a workable range, then raise it to 7.2 before starting the shocking process.
    TA at 100 is ok for the time being and can be adjusted later to help control PH over time.
    CH seems a little high, but I'll let the more experienced help here as I have a vinyl pool and it's in a ok range of 240, and is not supposed to be a worry for me.

    Chuck
    Swim n Play 21' round, expandable 72" liner, 6FT deep center, buried 14", 12,750 Gallons
    Waterway 1HP-2 speed with 22" Sand filter
    TF-100 test kit
    Thanks to TFP my pool is perfect all the time :party:
    I now suffer from Sparklypoolitis! :whoot:
    I am a Platinum contributor because I want everyone who comes here to Trouble Free Pool to have the same success that I enjoy with my pool and family.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Attack the CYA and CH at the same time by doing a partial drain/refill. It will be a LOT easier for you to balance and manage the pool if you get the CYA down to, say, 50 ppm. Your pH is low so you can increase it with some 20 Mule Team Borax, but no need to raise it too much -- getting it to 7.2 or so should be fine for now since you'll be doing the drain/refill of part of the water which will change things anyway.

    After you get the CYA down, then you can shock the pool with chlorinating liquid or bleach to get rid of the CC. Exposing the pool water to sunlight (if possible) will also help in that regard.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Thanks guys. I will start that process tomorrow night (draining/refilling).
    What does the diluted CYA test indicate?

    Although my pool is screened in, it is surrounded by oak trees. It gets very little sunlight, even in the summer.
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    The test kit only has a mark for CYA up to 100 ppm so the 130 ppm is an educated guess on your part and with the logarithmic scale it might not be an accurate guess. Diluting 50/50 lets you bring the CYA level into the more easily read range of the test (and you then double the measurement to get the final result). Though the error of measurement is doubled, it may still be more accurate than your estimate of 130. If it turns out that your CYA is actually 200, then this will tell you that you'll need to dilute more water than if it was really 130.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    OK, I did the diluted CYA test. The new reading is 200.

    Wow. The Pool Calculator tells me to drain and refill 80% of my pool.

    Anybody have a hose? LOL
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Hmmmm, that's certainly possible but somewhat unusual. Did the dot disappear completely using the diluted solution at the 100 mark on the view tube?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    yes, totally
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Yikes!

    I would suggest no more than a 50-60% drain done twice to get your CYA down to around fifty. You really won't consume much more water than if you tried to do it all in one shot which is not a good idea.

    Test in between the drain/refills just to be sure
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    I guess I just turn off the skimmer valve, hook up a garden hose to the hose bib on the filter, and run the pump until the water level is down 50%? Then refill. Is there no danger of "floating my pool" at that level?

    New territory for me.
    Mike

    9500 gallon plaster/gunite pool w/waterfall, 1/2 HP 1sp pump, 120 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 336 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panels, CPSC16 SWG, Boratized

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    Re: Nightly bleach chores?...

    Is there no danger of "floating my pool" at that level?
    That's why the suggested drain and refill twice so you never go lower than 50-60%. Virtually no danger at that point.

    If you wanted to be super-safe, you could do 25% each time (so that might be 4 cycles) which still wouldn't use that much more water but is just a little more hassle.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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