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Thread: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

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    400000 BTU natural gas heater

    i need the most efficient heater on the market
    point me to it please

    thanks

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    Join Date
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    400000 BTU natural gas heater

    I have jandy legacy. I have a feeling the lxi is more efficient. I'm curious. I told them I wanted efficient.
    Size 13,000 gal | Filtration Jandy DE 60 | Sanitation PLC1400 SWG, Rainbow 320 | Placement in-ground (IG) | Coping Tennessee Crab Orchard
    Finish pebble smooth Tahoe Blue | Pumps Intelliflo VS+SVRS 3.0HP main | Lighting Jandy LED Spa/Pool
    Location Frisco TX US

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    The Jandy Hi E2 is 95% but very expensive. Another good option is a Lochinvar which is "only" 88% but a lot less up front.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    The Jandy LXi is also 88 % efficient, and is less expensive than the Lochinvar.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    My Hayward 400k is around 90%
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    My Hayward 400k is around 90%
    Which Hayward heater do you have? The highest rating I could find for a Hayward gas heater was 84%.

    The Universal H-Series Low NOx heater has an 84 percent efficiency rating.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    My Hayward 400k is around 90%
    Which Hayward heater do you have? The highest rating I could find for a Hayward gas heater was 84%.

    The Universal H-Series Low NOx heater has an 84 percent efficiency rating.
    Universal Lo-Nox. I dont care what the ratings say. I go by what i see and measure. I get around 90%, give or take a couple.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Any heater over 85% efficiency has condensation concerns, especially if it's cool out. This makes things rust as the condensate is acidic.

    Some questions for you first. How you answer will effect the answer of what you might want or may lead to some additional questions.

    1) Where are you located?
    2) Do you have an attached spa?
    3) Is the pool indoors or outside?
    4) How many gallons is your system?
    5) If you have a pool and no spa, how warm do you want it?
    6) What is your expected usage pattern?
    7) Is this a replacement or new installation?

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    Any heater over 85% efficiency has condensation concerns, especially if it's cool out. This makes things rust as the condensate is acidic.
    Please explain. I get close to 90% in the middle of the summer with no condensate.

    As far a heater is concerned, my rule of thumb is pretty simple, get the biggest one you can afford. Genererally, the difference in price between a 250k and a 400k isnt all that great in the grand scheme of a pools cost. The bigger consideration is the cost of running the gas service to the heater. Uusally, a larger line is needed, and in some caes a bigger meter is needed as well. Depending on the area, it can run some dollars, or it can be a bit cheaper. At any rate, even a heater thats 250K (minimum size to get, IMO), is going to need a bigger line most likely. Putting in a 400k heater isnt going to increase the cost of a new line much. A ditch still needs to be dug, etc. Increaseing the pipe size a bit is minimal in money outlay. For me, it wouldn't matter if my pool was a 9000 gallon play pool or a 50,000 gallon monster. I'd get the biggest heater I could. It'll heat faster and wont use anymore gas than a smaller one since it wil run less.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    The delta between outside air and air in the combustion chamber will form condensate that will drip onto the burners and floor pan. The walls often get it too. This phenomenon is why furnaces and boilers have double walled flue pipes. Pool heaters, even with a high wind stack, don't have this.

    As was mentioned before, there are heaters that have higher efficiency ratings but are substantially more money. The materials used are more costly.

    One thing no one has mentioned, but that I was allowing for was the potential for a heat pump. But how the OP answers the questions I raised would suggest whether that was a reasonable solution for his needs.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    \One thing no one has mentioned, but that I was allowing for was the potential for a heat pump.
    I thought so.
    I just never suggest them if NG is available. IMO, too many downsides to them outside of the deep south. Again, all IMO, of course.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    1) Where are you located?south florida
    2) Do you have an attached spa? no spa
    3) Is the pool indoors or outside? outside
    4) How many gallons is your system? 17000
    5) If you have a pool and no spa, how warm do you want it? i want it 86 degrees
    6) What is your expected usage pattern? i would like to use it everyday after work
    7) Is this a replacement or new installation? replacing an existing 6 year old Hayward H400 400K BTU's NG heater that stopped working


    will consider Heat pumps

    Thanks

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    If the heat pump costs are too burdensome (60 amps service needed for it), a Pentair MasterTemp 400HD (Pentair part number 460805) is the best replacement. The Rheem/RayPak with Cupro Nickle is good too but Pentair has a better heat exchanger design.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    I would have to agree, Pentair is the way to go here. The Mastertemp or Max E Therm line. It's a closed pot.

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    Since you already have gas, I'd stick with that. A heat pump would work pretty well in south florida, but it will cost close to twice what a gas one will. Plus the added expense of running 50 amp service for it.
    About any major brand will be fine. Pool guys have their favs and biases, but in general they are all pretty much the same. I'd stick with whatever brand your trusted pool guy sells and services. They are usually service centers for a particular brand and can get warrenty work done pretty easy.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    The heat pump would take waaaaay longer to heat up the pool too. I know, I have one. ( also a pentair 400k gas heater )
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: 400000 BTU natural gas heater

    While the initial cost for a heat pump is higher, the cost to run it is usually less. An exception is California and Hawaii, where electric rates are rather steep. It might take some years to get the added costs back of installing a HP vs the cost of gas.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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