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Thread: Kleen Pool Algicide?

  1. #1
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    Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Hi Guys,

    I know this forum is not that big on algicides, but as a "pool guy", we need all the help we can get. I tried a gallon of this in one of my problem pools this summer and was impressed. No algae, low chlorine consumption and sparkling water. The owner says that it kills spores in the water and that visible algae ( green, mustard) is actually dead! I find that hard to believe but in the one pool it did very well. Just one ingredient, copper sulfate pentahydrate 9%.

    Appreciate any input especially if you have actually used it!

    bob

  2. #2
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Copper is an excellent algaecide, and that's what you find in most cheap algae control products.

    But copper is also the cause of green hair and fingernails and staining on pool surfaces. It's not worth the side effects, and it it completely unnecessary in a properly maintained pool. It's a waste of money.
    TFP Moderator
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  3. #3
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Have you tested the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level in your "problem pools"? Are these pools using stabilized chlorine such as Trichlor pucks/tabs for maintenance or Dichlor for shocking?
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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  4. #4
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Have you tested the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level in your "problem pools"? Are these pools using stabilized chlorine such as Trichlor pucks/tabs for maintenance or Dichlor for shocking?

    Yes, and yes. High CYA is a real problem around here (SF Bay) because of tight pool draining restrictions.


    thx

    bob

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lana537's Avatar
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr
    Hi Guys,

    I know this forum is not that big on algicides, but as a "pool guy", we need all the help we can get.
    Hi Bob~

    Welcome to the forum. "this forum is not that big on....." is an understatement. If you need all the help you can get, please study Pool School, and visit and learn here every day.

    Lana
    25,000 gallon, refurbished 1960's inground concrete, Jandy sand filter w Jandy 1.5hp single-speed pump, Pool Pilot Digital SWCG+Chemtrol 2100+CO2 tank; PebbleTec White Pearl with 10% Cobalt Blue Dark Beadcrete by Olympic Pool Plastering, Georgia. Taylor K-2006 Test Kit; Aqua Check Salt test; LaMotte borates test, and Jack's Magic Sequest test kit; SparklyPoolitis level: extremely high.

  6. #6
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Bob said he's a pool guy. BBB is hard to do if you can't be there daily or every other day to test and adjust. Clients probably won't do much since they're paying for his service. Algaecide can be good insurance in case FC drops below proper levels for a short time. This board recommends poly quat algaecide when one is used. It is more expensive but doesn't have the side effects of the copper ones.

    Welcome to the board Bob!
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  7. #7
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlscan26
    Bob said he's a pool guy. BBB is hard to do if you can't be there daily or every other day to test and adjust. Clients probably won't do much since they're paying for his service. Algaecide can be good insurance in case FC drops below proper levels for a short time. This board recommends poly quat algaecide when one is used. It is more expensive but doesn't have the side effects of the copper ones.

    Welcome to the board Bob!
    Thanks for the welcome, guys. I've had very mixed results with poly 60; from miracle to nothing! I think the copper algicide that I asked about adds a lot more copper than most other products which of course increase chances of problems. I think the label says .22 lbs elemental copper/gal.

    What I was most interested in was the owners claim that algae is not a plant, but a fungus. Here is the quote from the site:

    DID YOU KNOW that when you see GREEN, RED, YELLOW in your pool water that it is

    DEAD algae. BUT the LIVE INVISIBLE algae is still there because it doesn't become visible until it dies, then it turns a color, such as green, yellow, black. etc.

    DON'T add chlorine or SHOCK because chlorine/shock is bleach and only bleaches the DEAD algae and it does NOT kill the LIVE algae. Algae is a FUNGUS which can only be KILLED by using an ALGAECIDE.

    Chlorine and shock only kill bacteria, NOT FUNGUS.


    Very unorthodox to say the least??!!


    bob

  8. #8
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Bob,

    That baloney comes from this site selling Kleen Pool. It's complete bunk. All algae are plants except for what is known as blue-green algae which is a cyanobacteria (bacteria that use photosynthesis). The color of algae is often the color of the chlorophyll which is what absorbs light for the algae to turn into energy to make complex molecules (i.e. to live, grow and reproduce). Algae is not a fungus and it does not require an algaecide to be killed -- chlorine kills it just fine, but the active chlorine level is based on the FC/CYA ratio so with high CYA levels it takes much higher FC levels to prevent algae growth (see the Chlorine / CYA Chart in the Pool School).

    If the pools where you've added copper-based algaecide are plaster pools, then be very careful to keep the pH lower (or the TA from getting too high) or else you can get metal staining. Since these pools are Trichlor pools, their pH probably tends to stay low which is fortunate.

    If you were to raise your target FC level as the CYA level climbs over the season, then you would help prevent algae. You could supplement by adding chlorinating liquid during your weekly visit as well. If you just want to live with the higher CYA and not raise the FC level, then there are several choices for preventing algae. Copper is effective, but can stain and turn blond hair greenish. Polyquat 60 can help but is not perfect and must be added weekly since chlorine breaks it down (somewhat slowly). Phosphate removers will often, but not always, work to take the edge off of algae growth, but can be very expensive if phosphate levels are high. Another type of algaecide is an ammonium product since that combines with chlorine to produce monochloramine that kills algae and does not bind with CYA, but this is a one-time solution, not an ongoing one. However, you could use chlorine alone (as tens of thousands of pool owners do on this forum) if you were to add unstabilized chlorine (mostly chlorinating liquid or bleach) to the pools more frequently, say with twice a week visits (make it a quick one and skip the brushing for the mid-week visit).

    By the way, I live in the S.F. Bay Area in Marin County that has fairly tight water restrictions, but even there I use winter rains to dilute the pool water annually. As for water dilution, the largest pool service in our area that services thousands of pools still does partial drain/refill when the CYA level gets to 100 ppm and they usually target 4.5 ppm FC for their pools, though also add chlorinating liquid during weekly visits if the pool water is cloudy (usually nascent algae growth) or has visible algae. They don't follow the FC/CYA ratio (because they don't know it), but have learned through experience to target a higher FC and not get the CYA get too high, which is pretty much the same thing, just not as precise.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  9. #9
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    Re: Kleen Pool Algicide?

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Bob,

    That baloney comes from this site selling Kleen Pool. It's complete bunk. All algae are plants except for what is known as blue-green algae which is a cyanobacteria (bacteria that use photosynthesis). The color of algae is often the color of the chlorophyll which is what absorbs light for the algae to turn into energy to make complex molecules (i.e. to live, grow and reproduce). Algae is not a fungus and it does not require an algaecide to be killed -- chlorine kills it just fine, but the active chlorine level is based on the FC/CYA ratio so with high CYA levels it takes much higher FC levels to prevent algae growth.

    If the pools where you've added copper-based algaecide are plaster pools, then be very careful to keep the pH lower (or the TA too high) or else you can get metal staining. Since these pools are Trichlor pools, their pH probably tends to stay low which is fortunate.

    If you were to raise your target FC level as the CYA level climbs over the season, then you would help prevent algae. You could supplement by adding chlorinating liquid during your weekly visit as well. If you just want to live with the higher CYA and not raise the FC level, then there are several choices for preventing algae. Copper is effective, but can stain and turn blond hair greenish. Polyquat 60 can help but is not perfect and must be added weekly since chlorine breaks it down (somewhat slowly). Phosphate removers will often, but not always, work to take the edge off of algae growth, but can be very expensive if phosphate levels are high. Another type of algaecide is an ammonium product since that combines with chlorine to produce monochloramine that kills algae and does not bind with CYA, but this is a one-time solution, not an ongoing one. However, you could use chlorine alone (as tens of thousands of pool owners do on this forum) if you were to add unstabilized chlorine (mostly chlorinating liquid or bleach) to the pools more frequently, say with twice a week visits (make it a quick one and skip the brushing for the mid-week visit).

    By the way, I live in the S.F. Bay Area in Marin County that has fairly tight water restrictions, but even there I use winter rains to dilute the pool water annually. As for water dilution, the largest pool service in our area that services thousands of pools still does partial drain/refill when the CYA level gets to 100 ppm and they usually target 4.5 ppm FC for their pools, though also add chlorinating liquid during weekly visits if the pool water is cloudy (usually nascent algae growth) or has visible algae. They don't follow the FC/CYA ratio (because they don't know it), but have learned through experience to target a higher FC and not get the CYA get too high, which is pretty much the same thing, just not as precise.

    Richard

    Thanks, Richard

    Just wanted to hear whatI already figured!


    bob

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