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Thread: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C plus.

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    Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C plus.

    Thanks for all the help. I finally decided/purchased/installed my Pentair 2-speed 1.5 hp Whisperflo 011522 and C&C plus 425 sq ft cartridge filter this past weekend.

    Pump: The wiring was clear and simple and the 2-speed worked instantly. On low speed, it's very quiet but enough flow to operate my KK and the Aquarite. When I first turned it on without the KK, the heater's "normal" indicator light was on too so I was so happy but later, I think after hooking up the KK, it turned off. I know the KK can restrict the flow so may be it's the cause but I am not sure until I do more tests. It definitely won't work with spa. On hight speed, it's loud, almost like my 30 yrs 2hp motor. But it could be the the noise from the water flow because even with 0.5 hp less, this pump seems to move much more water.

    Filter: With 0.5 less hp than the old pump and much more sq ft of filtering (old Purex of 48 sq ft), setting at low speed, my filter's pressure reading was zero (it did increase from below zero to zero). It's the good thing I guess. The union fittings helped with the installtion of the pipes. Now, the fastener ring and the clamping system, unless I missed something, is not a very good design. Complared to my 30 yrs old Purex, this clamp system needs a tool (wrench) to remove and you have to remove the nut all the way out in order to take the ring out. And when you fasten it, the heavy duty spring coil rub against the ring and make loud metal-metal sound. Why can't have the same design as the Purex's. The bolt has a plastic knob at the end to turn without the need for a tool. And the other end of the bolt is T shaped that you can just loosen up a few turns and latch on/off to the the end of the ring to fasten/loosing up the ring. I also think the Pentair ring is over kill, way too big and heavy. The instruction says to tap it while fastening but I think I need a third hand to do that. The ring will not rest on the tank but keep slipping down unless it's tight. May be with more experience it will get better. The drain started leakinng a bit when I first turned on the pump but stopped eventually.

    Shedule 80 nipple and Plasto-Joint Stik : They don' work very well. I cut one into 2 pieces and used each for the in/out of the pump. I put plenty of the Plasto on the threads based on the instruction and reviews and it still leaked on the pressure side untill I turned it really really tight. The Plasto I think is too dense and makes it harder to turn and from my experience, when you connect threaded pvc pipes, if you keep turning when it's tight, it may crack . I can't tell on the suction side if it leaks or not. The nipple's thread ends seemed to be tapered at the tip, I guess for easy installation but may not seal well at that section.

    The hardest part of the job is connecting the pipes because I wanted to make if perfect, no pressure on any of the joints for long term durability, specially at the filter's/heater's union connections. I also used unions at the inlet/outlet of the pumps for easy disconnection in case the pump needs repair/replacement later.

    I am happy with the result and again thank you for all the info I've been getting. Can't wait to see my electric bill next month.

    Update: It was the Plasto that caused the leaking problem. I took apart the nipple and put 2 layers of teflon tape and top with pipe dope. It went back in smoothly all the way and no more leaks.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I don't know you're particular filter, but most hardware stores have knob bolts that you might look at to see if it would replace your current clamp bolt. I agree with you it should be easier for something that has to have routine maintenance by the end user.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    The heater uses a pressure switch as a flow detector. On low, there might not be enough pressure to close the pressure switch to allow the heater to run. You could increase the pressure by adding some sort of restriction after the heater, such as directional eyeballs. Alternatively, you could put a flow switch in the plumbing and wire it into the heater's fireman's switch or in place of the pressure switch.

    For thread sealant, I like Permatex No 2.

    http://www.permatex.com/products/Automo ... ealant.htm

    Note: Heaters should only be serviced be qualified personnel. It is important that the flow rate to the heater is always within the range specified in the heater's Installation and Operations manual. You might want to consider using a flowmeter to verify correct flow to the heater.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    Thanks for suggestion. I'll try the eyeballs. It's hard to imagine how restriction after the heater would increase the pressure on the inlet. One would think better flow (without restriction) means stronger current thus more pressure on the switch but then with restriction on the outlet, the inlet flow has to push harder on the switch too. Either way makes sense to me, lol...This is when experience counts. I am more of an electrical guy than fluid. Thx
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    Just be careful that you don't force the heater to turn on with insufficient flow. I think that a flowmeter would be a very good investment.



    http://www.bluwhite.com/Products/Variab ... ctpage.asp

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    If the eyeballs hold the flow back and keep water filled the heat exchanger (Not sure the name, those copper tubes where the flame heat up the water) prevents overheating then that's what it need to operate properly, correct? I'll search for a flow meter/spec regardless.

    we only use the heater during the summer months anyway so turning the pump to high is no big deal. I am just glad it works for the daily maint., KK and Aquarite.

    thx
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    The heater needs a minimum flow rate as specified in the manual. If the heater runs with less than the minimum, it can be damaged. Low speed might not provide enough flow rate, especially if the heater is large, like 300 K Btu/hr, or more.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I'll check it out. Thanks
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I read the manual for my heater (Hayward H400 series) and it requires a min/max of 25/125 gpm. My pump at low speed should move about 60-70 gpm and it should work with the heater, but it doesn't. The heater manual also said the pressure switch can be adjusted if the heater is located below the pool/spa level to conpensate for the no-flow static head (page 32). I am not sure what it means but wonder if I can adjust it for my application.

    Thanks

    http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/Manual285.pdf
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    The pressure switch can be adjusted somewhat. I think that I would first try increasing the backpressure, or using a flow switch in place of the pressure switch. Whatever you do, it's important to verify that you're getting at least the minimum flow before the heater turns on. That's a big heater and will quickly be damaged if it runs with low flow.

    I don't think that you would get 60 to 70 gpm on low; I think that 40 to 50 is more realistic.

    http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/whisperDS.pdf

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I got an answer from Hayward and he doesn't think I am getting 60-70 either. He thinks it's more like 25. May be I don't know how to read it but based on this chart:
    http://www.pentairpool.com/images/produ ... ve_new.gif , my curve is C and H and with a brand new filter, shouldn't I at least get close to that. Plus, the min requirement for this particular heater is only 25 gpm.

    Is there a specific flow switch made for this purpose? So to install a flow switch, I install it inline with the pipe going in the heater and run the 2 wires (assuming it has 2 wires)to the pressure switch so the flow will close the switch?
    Thx
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I think that you can get 40 gpm under good conditions. However, the curve is fairly flat, so it does not take much of a pressure rise to drop the flow below 25 gpm. Therefore, there is some chance that you might not get 25 gpm on low if there is any sort of restriction in the system, such as when using the KK.

    You can get a flow switch from a local pool/spa supply or plumbing supply place or on-line. You want one designed for the size pipe you intend to put it on, and you want it designed to turn on at about 25 to 30 gpm.

    You want a simple on/off switch. You disconnect the two wires going to the pressure switch and connect them to the flow switch. The pressure switch will just be left where it is, but it won't be used. The flow switch will take the place of the pressure switch.

    You might want to get a flowmeter first to see what flow you are getting on low. If it's too low, then you will have to run the heater on high when you want to use the heater. In that case, you won't want to do anything about trying to get the heater to run on low speed.

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    Re: Pump/Filter installed (Pentair 2-speed Whisperflow/C&C p

    I just checked again this past weekend and it was the KK. Without it, the heater worked fine, at least with brand new cartridges. I watched the flow in the strainer basket and the KK reduced the flow quite a bit. Without it, the gauge's reading went up 2-3 psi. For now I think I am ok with it but will look into the flowswitch if that changes as the cartridges get older.

    Thanks, James for the informative reply.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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