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Thread: Heat Pump Questions

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Heat Pump Questions

    I'm putting in an in ground pool this spring. I have a builder and we're waiting for the permits to clear. Originally, I didn't think we'd want/need a pool heater (no spa), but now my wife is wondering if we should get one. I'm thinking we'll try this season without and see how it goes, however I don't want to close off the option of adding a heater later.

    So I have a few question. I'm leaning toward a heat pump because of the lower running cost.

    1. I want to make sure I've planned ahead for adding a heat pump. What do I need to have installed now (electrical, plumbing, space, etc.).

    2. Can it be installed by me? I'm fairly competent mechanically.

    3. Is there a brand/model you'd recommend? Any brand/model to stay away from?

    4. Would it be controlled by my P4, or have it's own controls?

    Here is the pool/equipment I'm going to be using.

    Pool:
    Sq Ft: 600
    Length: 20x40
    Shape: Custom (almost a kidney)
    Depth: 3’, 4’, 6’
    Plaster: Grey
    Love Seat: 6’ Deep End
    Sunshelf: 8’
    Tile: Frost line, steps
    Pipe: 2” PVC
    Deck: 500’ Exposed Aggregate
    Skimmers: 2
    Returns: 2

    Equipment:
    Pump: Pentair WhisperFlo 1½ HP
    Filter: Pentair FNS Plus 48 D.E. Filter
    Control System: Goldline P4
    Chlorine: SWCG Goldline TurboCell
    Valves: Jandy Neverlube
    Light: (2) Colorlogic LED
    Cleaner: Pentair Legend II
    Winter Cover: Loop-Loc

    Thanks,
    John

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Hi John It is a good idea thinking about installing electric in for a heater. If you use a heat pump you will want to use a soler cover with it to keep the heat in the pool. Is your pool builder going to put a electric box at the pool to control everything if so just make shore the wires will Carry all the load. You will need a larger pad from the side of the pool pump to set the heat pump on. If you go to the home page under the scrolling box you will find a vendor under heat pump this will be Miller heat pumps it is a great sight and will help you with wire size and about all you need to know. I installed my own and it wasn't a bad job at all. I installed a Heat siphon heat pump and I like it and it is made in PA. I was very impressed with Millers for sales and answering questions. I don't have a controller I just use a timer for my pool pump which will operate the heat pump. Maybe somebody that has the Goldline P4 can help. Sounds like a great pool you are going to love it.
    Good luck Ric W.
    Ric W
    My Pool
    8605 gal fiberglass, 3/4 hp pump, sand filter, aquabot cleaner, heat siphon heat pump, tiger river(sumatran) spa

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Guest
    The p4 would control it. I would look into a reverse cyclce heat pump. They can operate at lower ambient temperatures. (and can acutally cool the pool in the heat of summer!) Also I would look into upgrading the p4 to a PS4 or even a PS8 in the eventuality that you want to intatall solar or gas supplimental heat. (Solar and a heat pump together is the most cost effective way to extend your swim season.) IF you have the ability to do it on your controller it becomes easy to do at a later time. Both the PS4 and PS8 have built in solar controllers and I know the PS8 can handle 2 heaters. Not sure about the PS4.
    As far as the best heat pump, a lot depends on your geographic location. Here in FL the Aquacal heat pumps are stellar performers. I would check and see what other people in your area are installing. Make sure it has a titanium heat exchanger if you are going with a SWG!

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    In the Industry

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    AquaCal has a new series of heat pumps hitting the market right now. It is the new SuperQuiet series which combines the the cooling feature with the quietest technology on the market today.
    Josh Ulfers - josh@saltpoolguys.com - 888-725-8766
    SaltPoolGuys.com - AutoPilot Pool Pilot Systems, Parts & Cells - AquaCal Heat Pumps

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Thanks guys. So it sounds like I should be able to perform the installation myself if I decide to go with a heat pump.

    The equipment pad is going to be 6' (square), so I think I should have enough room. If not, I'll add to the pad. I need to lookup the electrical requirements for everything and make sure the electrician gives me room to grow.

    waterbear, I'm taking your ps4/ps8 recommendations into serious account. I'm just having a hard time justifying it. Solar or gas heating isn't in my future. It's heat pump or bust (solar cover either way). I'm still thinking it over though.

    I was going to look into the AquaCal heat pumps. I see a representative posting here and I like to see that. Is there a preferred place to purchase AquaCal from?

    John

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    I can tell you right now that once the pool is built you might find that you do want to add on. Once you see how much it costs to actually heat a pool and once you see what a PITA a solar cover is you might change your mind about adding solar! It can really help lower your heating costs because the heatpump would not hve as much to do. Also, if you are going to add the heater you might find the remote to be a useful investment. Like I daid before. different parts of the country have different requrements for heatpumps. find out what works well in your area. I own an aquacal and it is excellent but I live in a very different climate.

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    Thanks everyone.

    John

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    John,

    Josh from saltpoolguys.com is a supporter of Troublefree Pools and offers added discounts to TFP members, and a dealer of our AquaCal Heat Pumps. In the Northeast, we lable the units as Aerotemp.

    The Superquite models are available now and are literally quieter than a circulation pump!

    Depending on which model you select, you will need no more than 220 volts and 50 amps of service, for the Ice Breaker (Heat and Cool) or 40 amps for a straight heat model.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  9. Back To Top    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    The Superquite models are available now and are literally quieter than a circulation pump!
    The regular Icebreakers are pretty darn quite! My AC unit is a lot noiser! I can't hear the Icebreaker in the pool or in the house but I can here the AC and they are only a few feet apart (with the Icebreaker closer to the pool and patio!)

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    Josh from saltpoolguys.com is a supporter of Troublefree Pools and offers added discounts to TFP members, and a dealer of our AquaCal Heat Pumps. In the Northeast, we lable the units as Aerotemp.

    The Superquite models are available now and are literally quieter than a circulation pump!

    Depending on which model you select, you will need no more than 220 volts and 50 amps of service, for the Ice Breaker (Heat and Cool) or 40 amps for a straight heat model.
    Thanks Sean. The SaltPoolGuys.com web site seems to be under construction. Can't really do anything on the site. I'll check back later.

    What models would you recommend for a 600 sq ft, 20,000-24,000 gal pool in the NW burbs of Philly. Would like to keep the temp around 82. What would be an average operating cost per month?

    One thing I didn't think about was noise. I definitely want a quieter model, so I'd be interested in the superquiete models. Heat only. Thanks for the 220/40 info.

    John

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Guest
    Even if you want heat only the reverse cycle models have an advantage. They will work in colder ambient temperatures without the coils freezing up. This could be a major factor in how long your swim season is in a more northern climate! (Atually, that was the main reason I went with one! I really don't use it to cool the pool in summer but it allows me to run the heat pump when the air temps dip fairly low!)

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    I think you will definitely want heat for this nice new pool. I am in NJ and cannot imagine not having heat for the pool. When you spend that much money on a pool don't you want to be able to use it as much as possible? Without heat you are talking about a three month swim season, with heat you probably are talking about 5+
    20x40 IG vinyl, heatpump and solar and 3 siberian huskies, 10kw PV solar electric system. Nikon Photographer D800e dSLR.

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    John,

    If you can find out what the local cost for electricity (cost per kilowatt) and LP or Natural gas, I can do an audit for PA on gas vs heat pump. Do you plan on using a solar blanket? If not, you may need TWO heat pumps.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    If you can find out what the local cost for electricity (cost per kilowatt) and LP or Natural gas, I can do an audit for PA on gas vs heat pump. Do you plan on using a solar blanket? If not, you may need TWO heat pumps.
    Sean,
    I plan to use a solar blanket, but I'm not sure if my wife will be able to handle it. We'll see. The pool will be in full sun.

    NG: $0.94558
    Elec: $0.06490

    This might be a question for someone else, but how much is each model (areotemp, the heat/cool model, the quiet model)?

    Thanks, John

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Guest
    This really depends on where you buy them and who installs them. You will probably pay a lot more if you have your builder supply it and install it than if you buy it from a retailer and self install. I do know the suggested list but these units might be discounted or their might be shipping charges involed sot all I can really tell you is that the reverses cycle are a bit more expensive than the straight heat and the superquiets more than the reverse cycle for basically equivalent BTU output. If your equipment is not going to be located right next to the pool I can tell you that the reverse cycle is not that noisy!!!My pumps are actually louder when they both run!!!!!So is my home AC unit. My heatpump sits just outside my screenroom and I have to walk over to it to see if it's running! When my spa is on the jets make more noise than the heatpump so the only way I know it's kicked on is when the water coming out of the jets get's hotter or if I look to see if the fan on top of it is turning! Ditto for when my water features and spillover are on! I have the reverse cycle Aquacal Icebreaker 120R (middle of the line)

  16. Back To Top    #16
    My Solar Panels are super quiet, I can't tell if they are on or not.
    20x40 24,000 gal IG plaster/CircuPool RJ45 SWG/2 skimmer/2sp 2.5hp Jandy Stealth/340sq ft cart filter/600sqftHeliocol Solar Panels/6ft semi circlr tanning ledge/25ft deep end bench/5ft sheer descent/2 lion head water features/1300sqft travertine paver/2 Colorlogic lights/Hayward Navigator/3step 2ft raised bond beam

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCJR
    My Solar Panels are super quiet, I can't tell if they are on or not.
    I love the idea of solar heating, but placement and size issues make it a problem for me.

    waterbear, thanks for the info. I'm thinking I should be able to do this install myself and save a little money. The equipment pad will be near the pool. Placement hasn't been finalized (I'm trying to place it as far from the sitting area as possible), but it'll be about 10' from the deep end of the pool and 20-30' from the sitting area.

    My AC unit is in the backyard right off the deck and I hate it. I have a very quiet back yard and built a nice pond with a water fall. Very relaxing. With the AC on though, I can't hear the waterfall and it just ruins the backyard. I'll be relocating the AC to the side of the house at some point. I'm kinda hoping the AC would break so I'd have an excuse to do it.

    John

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    With cheap electricity like that a heat pump is definitely a good way to go!
    20x40 IG vinyl, heatpump and solar and 3 siberian huskies, 10kw PV solar electric system. Nikon Photographer D800e dSLR.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    John,
    you gave 600 sq ft as the surface area but 20 x 40 as you dimensions, so I used 600 figuring it was a free form.
    Anyway, I'm attaching a sizing audit that shows that you can efficiently heat your pool from the second half of April through the end of October. The cost savings with the AquaCal is about 70% vs a natural gas heater to maintain 80 degrees.

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Thanks Sean. Mid April would probably be a bit to early for me to start up (air temp to cold). I was thinking more around mid May to end of Sept. the numbers look good to me though.

    You have the AT155-R selected, so I'm guessing that's the size I'll need for my pool? Even for the shorter season listed above? Would I really need 2 155-R's if I don't use a blanket? That would pretty much close the deal for me. Also, is the "R" needed if I don't plan to cool or use it in real cold weather? Would there be an advantage is my situation?

    Thanks for your help.

    John

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