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Thread: New member needs advice, please.

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    New member needs advice, please.

    Finally I found a pool forum that seems active. I've been reading lots but havent found clear answers yet so please either advise or post the related link is much appreciated.

    I've been maintaining my pool in the last 10 years and still learn new things every summer. Anyway, since I can't find the rotary valve for my pre 1982 Purex 2048, I am thinking of getting a new cartridge filter for less maint. My original, I believe, Aquaflow with Franklin Electric 2hp motor still working fine but since I have to change the pipes for the filter it might be easier to change the pump too and hopefully will lower the electric bill. I don't mind spending the $ but my goal is to be close to maint free. So below are my questions/thougths and please comment:

    1. Pump: The VS pumps, even though cost much more, seem like a good idea with slow flow over a longer time. However, it's strange that they (at least Pentair) are designed to be placed indoor or under a roof. And I read some people had to replace the drive that cost around $1000 if exposed to rain or sprinklers. I also don't know what is the best way to run my Aquarite with VS pumps since they have their own timer. I got different answers about hook them up with the external timer/Aquarite. And how is the low flow going to work with my KK and heater? If I have to select a high speed to accomodate these equipment, what' the point. So after all of this, I think, with my priority of low maint pool, I'll go with single speed with less HP, 1.5 instead of 2. My 30 yrs+ single speed still working with almost zero trouble and I am still not sure if I want to change it out. There are times when I found it ran dry for who knows how long and it kept running. I guess the solid brass pump helped. Anyway, I am considering the Whisperflow 11514, 1.5HP.

    2. Filter: My pool is surrounded with trees and the DE is just too much to maintain. Sometimes the flow is not strong enough to even turn on the heater. So I think I'll go with the cartridge type. First I thought 200 sq ft filter was a great improvement compared to the 48 sq ft of the Purex but I was told it's still too small. So I am thinking about Hayward 420. I was also told Hayward tank is better than Pentair.

    3. My existing system has check valves in front of all pumps. I think my equipments are about 2-3 feet above the water. Do I need them? Whenever I opened the lid to clean, I still lost prime and it took up to 5-10 mins to prime.

    4. From what I read, PVC Schdule 40 is ok, except for coming out of the heater, I need Schedule 80? Can I use flexible PVC?

    I appreciate all the inputs.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Welcome to the forum

    1. A VS pump usually is not a break even situation unless your electric rate is quite high or your pool is very large. You don't say your pool size or where you live but, for most people, a 2-speed pump is an econimical alternative that will pay back in a much shorter period.

    2. You seem to be saying you get a lot of junk in your pool. For that application, I would suggest a sand filter. each type has pluses and minuses but sand wins when it comes to handling larger amounts of debris. The brand of the filter seems pretty irrelevant.

    3. I am not a big fan of check valves but they are SUPPOSED to help you prime. Something is wrong with them or perhaps your water is draining out the return side of your system. I would keep the one on the main pump but would find out why it has not helped you to prime.

    4. Yep, sched 80 out of the heater because sched 40 has much lower strength when hot. I do not have a very good opinion of flex PVC but it is certainly convenient in many situations.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    If you are looking a low maintenance filter I am with duraleigh, a sand filter is the king of low maintenance. I personally have ZeoBright in mine and after one season I love it. The water is every bit as pollished as it was with my old DE filter that was the king of PITA filters. If you have a lot of dirt to remove and the filter gets dirty you can backwash in like 2 min. I have a lot of other things to do besides tear down a filter.
    10,800 gallons Gunite/Plaster
    Hayward 244t 24" Sand Filter with Zeo
    1 1/2 HP Challenger
    Digital Pool Pilot DIG-220 SC-48
    Located in NOLA

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    If you made a VS's electrical connection water tight, it would run underwater. During it's development, it actually happened when a gust blew the filter and pump in the test pool on a Friday night. It was found on Monday imitating the Energizer bunny, Still going!.

    The pump, not unlike any other electronic device, doesn't like lightning. That doesn't mean it needs to be indoors. It's not like you're in an area known for thunderstorms.

    Given that you are in Southern California, between the rebates and the reduced power consumption, the cost of the pump vs. your current power consumption bill makes the payback fairly quick.

    Intelliflows are variable speed pumps. I have found that setting a slightly higher running speed or flow rate will allow the heater to function. Skimmers and your KK also need higher flow rates. There are 8 programmable presets available. plus timers built in.

    A two speed pump has no built in timer. Low speed is often too slow for a heater or for your KK and skimmers.

    A large cartridge filter is suggested in your neck of the woods. It has the least water loss.

    Avoid flex PVC, especially with above ground plumbing. It will fail due to UV. Schedule 80 out of the heater is not required but as was mentioned earlier, a good idea, at least for a foot or so.

    Check valves in front of a pump are almost never a good idea, If there were an suction entrapment. The check valve will create a suction when trying to pull out of the entrapment, even with the pump off. I try to avoid them except for raised spa returns. With erosion feeders and salt cells, I prefer to use a Hartford loop between the clorine feeder and heater.

    I hate Hayward anything. I prefer Pentair, then Jandy/Zodiac, before Hayward.

    I love your old pump. Some friends and I call them acorn grinders. But alas, as you found out, they aren't the best when it comes to pulling water up. Newer pumps have better designs that will prime faster after having removed the lid.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Thank you all for your feedback.
    1. Pump: I guess I'll stick with single speed because as mentioned, the lower speed isn't enough for the cleaner so there is no point to get the 2-speed. For VS pump, beside the cost and complication of wiring with the Aquarite, I just want to deal with simple pumps tha have less parts. What does it mean when the pump has "self priming" feature? compared to pumps that don't have it?

    2. I had considered sand for easy maint but for my pool size (in my signature) I need a big one and I have no room for it.
    3. Ok, I'll will take out the check valve.

    Scott, what don't you like about Hayward? My plan was to buy everything Pentair due to their customer service but my local vendor said Hayward filters have better tank.

    Again, thanks for the inputs.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Everyone has their opinions. Pentair/Jandy have their share of haters too. Pentair does provide a longer warranty if you buy three or more of their products at once; I'm not sure if others do this.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    "Self-Priming" just means you can put the pump above the level of the water in the pool, like most inground installations. Non-self priming pumps are usually only for above ground pools.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    I noticed not all Pentair in-ground single speed pump has "self-priming" listed. I guess their descriptions on the products aren't consistent.

    I guess I'll settle for single speed pump. I expected to read a lot on convincing to go for VS pump but may be it's not as popular as I'd thought and/or at least the theory I listed above was reasonable enough not to get one.

    Thanks everyone. We only change these things once every 10-20 yrs so I just wanted to be sure to make a wise choice.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    In southern California, your electric rate is probably high enough to justify a variable-speed pump. I'm pretty sure you're not even allowed to install a single speed pump there; it needs to be a two-speed at least.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Hmm...I need to check. Thanks. I only run my pool 4/6 hrs a day on non-summer/summer and my pool is fine. But honestly I don't really know how much electricity it uses or what to compared with. Like someone mentioned above, the low speed of the 2 speed pump isn't enough for my KK and may be the Aquarite so it'll be just a waste and more trouble (the switch itself) to deal with.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    As you live in California - it appears to me that if you want more than 1 HP pool pump - it must be a 2 speed or multispeed - and meet other requirements of Title 20. Check with someone who is more of an expert for your area.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Well, thanks for bring up the Cal Title 20. I was about to purchase pump/filter without knowing. Many web sites say it permit downsizing to smaller pump but I wonder it still has to be less than 1hp because I am downsizing from 2 to 1.5 HP.

    The title also requires automatic control and the only one from Pentair that comes with one is the Intelliflow VF (11012). Other Intelliflows requires external auto control.
    SCE, however, offers rebate for all Intelliflow without auto control except for Intelliflow VS-3050 (11013). It's so confusing.

    At least that's how I read it. Please correct If I am wrong. Now I have to go back to read all the info on their Intelliflow pumps to confirm which one has built in auto control.
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    I don't know your answers - that's why I suggested you talk to someone familar with it. I picked up on that Title 20 when looking for a new pump this summer - since I'm in NC, it's not an issue - but it should concern you.

    The variable speed / variable flow pumps should be the best for you, especially if you pay $.20/KWh or more. A 2 speed pump (with appropriate automation) should get you most of the benefits at about half the cost up front. And your "automation" doesn't have to be all that tricky to comply - just need some timers that will kick down to lower speed after priming on high speed. Should be able to do it for $200-$300.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

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    Re: New member needs advice, please.

    Just did some reading on the reviews of the Intelliflow from Amazon and I think I might go with that. I don't want to add another control panel in the pool area. I just have to wait for confirmation from Pentair about the auto control. Whenever a device come with a computer it spells trouble but I guess I don't have a choice.

    Thanks
    35k Gallon, 2 In Piping, Aquarite, KK, Spa, Water Fall.

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