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Thread: Progress on scale

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Progress on scale

    Here's a picture from November last year. This was the worst section of the spa.

    Here's a picture taken this morning. I might have to retake it later, when the light is better.
    [attachment=0:3d9lc4n5]Dsc02670.jpg[/attachment:3d9lc4n5]

    It's not completely eradicated, but the pool has been swimmable the whole time (aside from water temperature).
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    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Looks like you're making really good progress! Thanks for documenting it; it goes to prove that you really can get rid of it, with a little diligence and a lot of patience.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Progress on scale

    I have a similar lookinzg scaling issue from my pre-TFP days. What has your method been to get rid of the scaling? I have been maintaining the csi in the 0 to -.3 range for a month but have not noticed any improvement. I'm hesitant to do any sort of acid wash. Scrubbing with a nylon brush seems to have no effect. Should i try a wire brush?
    Thanks!!
    30000 gallon inground gunite pool
    Intelliflo ic-60 SWG, pentair tagelus sand filter, 1.5 hp whisperflo pump, tf 100 test kit,
    2 kids(tl), 1 mini-dachshund/lab mix(t),
    Central Illinois

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Maintaining negative CSI, wire brush, and time. The big change in appearance started after the winter rains, when I diverted a downspout to the pool and replaced over half the water in about a month's time. There's no Calcium in rainwater!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Progress on scale

    There has been little to no rain here but i have bben planning to drain some water and let rain fill the pool as soon as i can. My fill water has a high CH so that's not an option. I plan on draining partially for winter soon Which should help a lot! We got huge snowfalls here last year so my fngers are crossed!
    30000 gallon inground gunite pool
    Intelliflo ic-60 SWG, pentair tagelus sand filter, 1.5 hp whisperflo pump, tf 100 test kit,
    2 kids(tl), 1 mini-dachshund/lab mix(t),
    Central Illinois

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    A month is nothing, as far as this process is concerned! It took about a year for me to remove less scale than Richard had; I actually didn't do a whole lot of brushing but just let the water work on it. Below is how mine looked originally; I don't have an 'after' picture, but just imagine the white coating gone.

    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Another update. I guess I should have checked what I took pictures of last time, this shot is to the right of the others, but you may be able to spot the matching uneven tiles.

    [attachment=0:2hg16uc3]Dsc02947.jpg[/attachment:2hg16uc3]
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    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Wow what a difference.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Good job Richard!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    No pictures this time - there's no room in the pool to empty the spa water into. I added about 3" of rainwater this last "storm." But anyway...

    Last full set of tests was 2 weeks ago. CH was 700. Somewhere I figured out that the average pool depth would be 60". So...3" dilution in 60" water should be 5%. So maybe, just maybe, I'd be able to detect CH dropped. I was looking for 675 today. Instead, I have 725. Which means: I'm still stripping scale!! That Calcium had to come from somewhere.

    I'm so tempted to go berzerk and run the pH down in the sixes to accelerate the process, but I have no desire to buy a new heater. So slow and steady we go, pH about 7.2, CSI hovers around -.5 > -.6.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    More rain!

    Another rain shower last night. They never gave expected rainfall amounts, so I figured it would be minimal. But this morning the pool and spa were at the same level. Roughly 5% dilution. Now I wish I'd drained it down a little. I'm pumping it out from the main drain, but I know some of that precious Calcium-free water is sneaking out.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    June Update

    [attachment=0:12zgk60q]Dsc03392.jpg[/attachment:12zgk60q]

    Seems like the last little bit is the hardest to remove.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    [center:10uu06an][attachment=0:10uu06an]Dsc03457.jpg[/attachment:10uu06an]
    Moving right along![/center:10uu06an]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    In the Industry

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    Re: Progress on scale

    Lookin' good, 320. You are a persevering dude!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Great job Richard!

    I recently was coaching another user on calcium scale. The suggestions I gave are virtually identical to what you have been doing. Made it very clear that this is a slow process, though...kind of like watching paint dry. However, the progress will be noticed when pictures are taken several months apart.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    Since it got dragged back towards the top, I thought I'd post another update. Progress has slowed a bit, but should accelerate again as the water cools down and its easier to keep the CSI down.
    [attachment=0:2l6jd0ap]spawall10262012.jpg[/attachment:2l6jd0ap]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    The improvement is slowing, but still happening. It seems to be one of those inverse proportion things: the first 90% only takes 10% of the time...

    [attachment=0:2fi81m28]Dsc03902.jpg[/attachment:2fi81m28]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Progress on scale

    Hello from Wylie, TX again.

    I have a similar problem in my pool that came with the house, scale and all. I may be a complete newb, but BBB has helped me move right into taking care of the pool without getting "pool-stored" and spending way too much money. Being able to jump in and cool off during these hot north Texas summers is priceless.
    While the water looks great, the pool surfaces need some help. In playing with the pool calculator (thx Jason) I find that while holding the ph at 7.2, TA has the next biggest impact on CSI. What I plan to try is to keep the CSI ~-0.5 or so, keep working on the scale with a wire brush and not to expect results overnight. If I take my TA down to 40 or so, will I have to keep a tight rein on ph? Will it need checking multiple times in a day? I don't have much control over water temp. Am I even taking the right approach?
    I don't relish the thought of draining and replacing a large percentage of the water, and then still having the scale to deal with, and then the CH would just climb again. As long as I can keep the calcium in suspension I'm good. I would prefer to copy the technique that Richard320 has embraced, to replace pool water with rain water gradually, while working on this problem and still being able to use the pool.
    I would sure like to disprove the naysayers that say the plaster is degrading or "you can't get rid of scale". The pool is in great shape except for the scale.
    I would appreciate any constructive comments.

    Here are the test results from this morning:

    FC-6
    CC-0
    ph-7.2
    TA-70
    CH-400
    CYA-50

    Thanks
    250Gal, portable spa, K-2006

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    If you lower your TA too much, you'll start to see swings in pH and it probably will be harder to keep in a tight range. You could aim for 7 with the pH, but that doesn't give much leeway. Honestly the best way to lower your CSI would be to replace water. Or, you could add some salt.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    lkalred's Avatar
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    Re: Progress on scale

    This is exactly the issue that I am concerned about. I'm not worried about managing the CH of the water, but of removing the scale. What is the most appropriate way to get my CSI to -0.5 while maintaining a swimmable pool? Richard320, you did it. How did you manage it?
    250Gal, portable spa, K-2006

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