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Thread: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

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    New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Hi, all...

    So I installed a new Pentair Variable pump, model 11018, all works fine except...

    According to the pentair site, they say if I run my pump @1000rpm for 17 hrs, that will be one complete turnover. (Pool size is 17,000 gals.)

    I have it running at that exact setting now, but geezo... it sure looks to me like hardly any water at all is flowing out of my spillover spa, and the filters/lines aren't clogged. Hard to believe that 17,000 gals will turn over in 17 hours.

    Does this seem correct? Is this what I should expect? Or am I just used to the single speed 3450rpm pump's turnover time?

    Thanks for any opinions...
    Corey
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    17,000 gallons will turn over in 17 hours at about 17 GPM. 17 GPM does not seem like a lot of flow compared to a standard pump running at full speed. 17 GPM is about double what a garden hose will do.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    The flow rate estimates at the Pentair site are just estimates. The actual flow rate depends on many details of your plumbing. In any case, it is very plausible that you are getting 17 GPM at 1000 RPM. Most pools get more than 17 GPM at 1000 RPM.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    These are some rough estimates that I have come up with for various types/sizes of plumbing:

    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 1.5" Plumbing with 1 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 45
    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 1.5" Plumbing with 2 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 40
    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 2.0" Plumbing with 1 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 35
    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 2.0" Plumbing with 2 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 30
    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 2.5" Plumbing with 1 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 30
    Intelliflo/EcoStar on 2.5" Plumbing with 2 Suction Line: Flow Rate (GPM) = RPM / 25

    The Pentair estimate is far lower than the worst of these. At 1000 RPM, I would think you would be at least at 20 GPM and problably closer to 25 GPM.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Thanks, James, Jason & Mas985

    I have a 12" wide breakaway on the spa wall & it just looks (to me, anyway) like MAYBE 2-3 GPM, if that, is spilling over... I don't know any other way to judge the flow rate.

    I also have one 2" suction line, but if I'm not mistaken, the original plumbing in and around this older pool is 1.5", so somewhere underground is the 2" to 1.5" adapter, I would assume it's near the pump.

    I bumped it up to 1800rpm this morning & now it looks more like 17 gpm now. Still not sure though.

    Is there a more accurate way to measure it?
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    You could get a flowmeter.



    What is the filter pressure at various speeds?

    http://www.bluwhite.com/Products/Variab ... ctpage.asp

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Various Filter PSI Pressure:

    750rpm: 0 (no reading)
    1000rpm: 0 (no reading)
    1800rpm: 8
    3110rpm: 20
    3450rpm: 25

    Normal PSI with old pump (single speed 1.5hp 3450rpm) was consistently 20-22. In fact, even with filters removed pressure was 20-22.
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    How high is the filter gauge relative to the pool water?

    Also, do you have multiple suction lines or only a single suction line from the pool all the way to the equipment?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Filter gauge is probably 5-6 feet above water level.

    There's one suction line, divided by a jandy valve that's usually positioned to get water from the skimmer, which is about 45 feet away from the pump.

    Here's a pic:
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Assuming that the suction line is 1.5" all the way from the pool and with the additional information above, I get:

    GPM = RPM / 54

    or about 19 GPM @ 1000 RPM.

    At full speed, is the pump drawing in a lot of air?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Not at high speed as far as I can tell, Mark. However, at 1000 rpm, an air bubble appears in the strainer after a few hours.

    But when the pump starts at the next scheduled time, it primes itself at high speed and in just a few seconds the bubble disappears. I guess it's supposed to do that.

    Heck.. if it's 19gpm @ 1000rpm, I'll turn it back again.

    Thanks for your help, mark
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    I can't tell for sure, but the plumbing all looks like 2-inch PVC.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Quote Originally Posted by coreyor
    I also have one 2" suction line, but if I'm not mistaken, the original plumbing in and around this older pool is 1.5", so somewhere underground is the 2" to 1.5" adapter,I would assume it's near the pump.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Quote Originally Posted by coreyor
    I also have one 2" suction line, but if I'm not mistaken, the original plumbing in and around this older pool is 1.5", so somewhere underground is the 2" to 1.5" adapter,I would assume it's near the pump.
    OK, thanks, I missed that part.

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Yes, I'm assuming that there's a 2" to 1.5" adapter on the 2 inlet & the 2 outlet lines, probably near the pump when the previous pump was installed before I moved in.

    I'm assuming because that's the diameter of the skimmer suction port.

    Corey
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Quote Originally Posted by coreyoreo
    Yes, I'm assuming that there's a 2" to 1.5" adapter on the 2 inlet & the 2 outlet lines, probably near the pump when the previous pump was installed before I moved in.

    I'm assuming because that's the diameter of the skimmer suction port.

    Corey
    Not necessarily, it's possible that the plumbing is all 2-inch except for the connections to the pool.

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    Ah, ok. Thank you.

    I guess I'll never really know for sure unless I ever need to dig them up.

    Was it normal to use 1.5" plumbing in older pools?
    17,000 gal. IG pool with spillover spa, gunite/white plaster (approx15 y/o, replastered 10/2010), Filter Equipment installed 2007: Pentair CCP520 4-cartridge filter F/R 150, Pentair Mastertemp 250 Gas Heater, 3hp Pentair IntelliFlo Variable 8 Speed Inground Pump(installed 9/2011), and Proud lifetime TFP supporter!!

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    Re: New variable pump-- turnover time hard to believe..

    1.5 inch and 2-inch are common.

    I don't think that 1.5 inch should be used on an inground pool, especially on suction.

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