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Thread: Need help with Sand filter

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Need help with Sand filter

    I am a new pool owner, well relatively new. We bought our dream house just over one year ago. Previous owner gave me a very brief explanation how to run things. Last year he showed me that normal pressure for the filter is around 17psi, and that if I get to around 30psi I should backwash. Worked great last year.

    This year when I opened the pool, I have not been able to get the pressure below 27-28psi. After vacuuming it can get up to 40psi or more. (Yikes) The initial chemicals the local pool shop gave me after water analysis worked great, water was crystal clear. Few weeks later water was green and cloudy. I have fought this all summer long, flocking, vacuuming to waste, etc. We try and shock weekly and run the pump 6-7 hours a day. Chlorine is distributed via a inline chlorinator filled with tablets inside the pool shed.

    I have wasted hundreds of dollars in chemicals this season and it still looks like ****. My wife found this forum a couple weeks ago and since them I have been reading lots. I am now convinced the BBB method is the way to go. I have a TF-100 test kit on the way to the house and cannot wait to get started treating my pool the correct way. It's time to become educated and stop being at the mercy of the local pool shop and their expensive chemicals.

    Now to get to the point of this thread. Correct me if I am wrong, but I feel I should have a proper functioning filter before I even attack the green water. I feel like it is not functioning properly if I cannot get the pressure below where it is at. I was prepared to pay someone to come out and change out the sand until I saw some posts on here saying that sand does not normally have to be changed.

    As listed in my signature, I have a Tagelus High Rate sand filter. The sticker on the side does not say the model #, amount of sand, etc. It has the spots for them, but was either not filled out or has worn off over time. There is a sticker on it that says it has the "V" type threading on it used prior to 1991. There are couplers to all the fittings connected to the MPV. My question is how do I take off the top of the filter to inspect and hopefully clean the sand? It looks like the junction where the center tube meets the filter housing is glued on. There are 6 screws around the MPV, do I remove those?

    I am hopefully attaching some pictures to show my filter and what I am trying to describe.





    Thanks in advance for any help!
    18,000 Gallon Plaster IG Kidney w/ 400 Gallon Spa.
    Tagelus Sand Filter w/ Jandy Series One Gas Furnace.
    Emerson 1081 Pump, 1.0 HP 1.65 SF @ 3450 RPM.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    I have no experience with that brand of sand filter, but the first thing I would do (if you haven't done it already) is replace the pressure gauge to make sure you are getting the correct reading. From the pictures it looks like you need to cut, remove and replace some of the inlet and outlet piping to get the top of the filter open. With PVC pipe that's really not that much of a job. Then when you put it back together you can install unions so you don't have cut the pipe again if you need to open the filter in the future.

    If you open the filter you can put a water hose in the sand and work it all around to flush out any collected dirt or debris. I had to do that to mine earlier this year and was amazed at how much stuff came out. I had large clumps and hard layers of something that took about four hours to break up and wash out. I had to rig up a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe long enough to reach the bottom of the filter and attach a water hose fitting to the inlet. Then I could get the pipe to the bottom and really wash out all the gunk. When I finished I had to add about a 100 lb of sand to bring the level up.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    I will have to look again, but I think I can unscrew the inlet and outlet. It looks that way to me at least. My question is how do I remove the top of the filter? If I do unscrew the inlet and outlet do I need to drain the filter first, or is the water line below that level?

    Thanks.
    18,000 Gallon Plaster IG Kidney w/ 400 Gallon Spa.
    Tagelus Sand Filter w/ Jandy Series One Gas Furnace.
    Emerson 1081 Pump, 1.0 HP 1.65 SF @ 3450 RPM.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    You don't need to drain the filter. Just turn the valve to the waste position that will relieve any pressure and let the water drain from the pipes. At least that how it works with my Hayward sand filter.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    So do you think I can get to the sand by removing those 6 screws that hold the mpv valve on, or is there something below that that needs to be removed as well?
    18,000 Gallon Plaster IG Kidney w/ 400 Gallon Spa.
    Tagelus Sand Filter w/ Jandy Series One Gas Furnace.
    Emerson 1081 Pump, 1.0 HP 1.65 SF @ 3450 RPM.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Quote Originally Posted by odonekanobe
    So do you think I can get to the sand by removing those 6 screws that hold the mpv valve on, or is there something below that that needs to be removed as well?
    The six stainless steel screws only hold the valve together. The valve is screwed into the filter as one piece. Once you disconnect the PVC, then you unscrew the entire valve.

    Notice that the valve is a "V" thread. The older valves have a "V" thread, and the newer valves have a "Buttress" thread. If you have to replace the valve, you will need to make sure to get the correct thread.

    You could disassemble the valve to clean, lubricate and inspect the gaskets and O-rings.

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Thank you. It looks like the pipe that runs into the filter from the valve is glued on. Is there an inside piece that has the "v" threads, or am I going to have to cut/break the glue/silicone seal and have to reseal it after?
    18,000 Gallon Plaster IG Kidney w/ 400 Gallon Spa.
    Tagelus Sand Filter w/ Jandy Series One Gas Furnace.
    Emerson 1081 Pump, 1.0 HP 1.65 SF @ 3450 RPM.

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Calera, Al
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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Does your pressure Guage go to 0 when you turn off the pump? If not it is the gauge and a very cheap and easy replacement. I'd start there if it were me... I would not worry about the sand at this point.
    17,000 gal, IG Gunite Diamond Brite plaster Kidneybean,w/7x11 tanning ledge& 3x5 swimout bench,244T 300lb Hayward Pro high rate sand filter(63 GPM) , Hayward 1Hp Super Pump w/3/4 hp booster pump, Polaris 280, Laars Lite 2 175k N/G Heater, Tf-100, Speed stir

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Quote Originally Posted by odonekanobe
    Thank you. It looks like the pipe that runs into the filter from the valve is glued on. Is there an inside piece that has the "v" threads, or am I going to have to cut/break the glue/silicone seal and have to reseal it after?
    The whole valve is threaded into the filter. The thread is the full diameter of the filter opening (about 6 inches in diameter). There is a big O-ring that seals the valve to the filter. You just lubricate the O-ring (replace the O-ring) and screw the valve back down. There is also a center O-ring inside the valve where the valve slips over the center standpipe.

    http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/p ... es-175.htm

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    This is all good advice, but make sure you check the pressure gauge. It looks like in the picture that the pump is off but the gauge is reading some pressure. I'd hate for you to tear the filter apart when all that's wrong is the gauge.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    This is all good advice, but make sure you check the pressure gauge. It looks like in the picture that the pump is off but the gauge is reading some pressure. I'd hate for you to tear the filter apart when all that's wrong is the gauge.

    Good point. I will pick up another gauge before I do anything. Although if the filter is acting as it should be, then there goes my theory that it's one of the main problems right now.
    18,000 Gallon Plaster IG Kidney w/ 400 Gallon Spa.
    Tagelus Sand Filter w/ Jandy Series One Gas Furnace.
    Emerson 1081 Pump, 1.0 HP 1.65 SF @ 3450 RPM.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Need help with Sand filter

    Quote Originally Posted by odonekanobe
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    This is all good advice, but make sure you check the pressure gauge. It looks like in the picture that the pump is off but the gauge is reading some pressure. I'd hate for you to tear the filter apart when all that's wrong is the gauge.

    Good point. I will pick up another gauge before I do anything. Although if the filter is acting as it should be, then there goes my theory that it's one of the main problems right now.
    Good move. No sense putting yourself behind the 8 ball if that's not your problem. Your problems will pretty much stay theories until you get your test kit. Getting that test kit was a real good move. Once you get that kit and post a full set of results, the fine folks here will get you squared away nicely.

    Although our pools are different, your problems are very similar to what I (and countless others) have gone through. Allow me to theorize.

    My pressure gauge has done exactly what yours has done this year. My filter works fine. I think yours is too.

    My CYA was very high. It was in the 90's. I think yours is too. I had no idea of the Chlorine / CYA! relationship and constantly struggled with algae. This was one of the most important pieces of the puzzle for me. The second and equally important piece was a good test kit.

    Once you are ready to act, a full understanding of the word Shock is imperative. It's not a product. It's a process. Also, the types of Chlorine used is important. Once you test you can better choose which type to use. In most cases it's bleach/liquid chlorine.

    There's other factors to consider but reading these forums and asking questions will make it second nature in no time. There's gold in these here hills.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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