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Thread: Does salt decrease visibility?

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    Does salt decrease visibility?

    Just added 440 lbs of salt to my pool this weekend. Salt is currently at 3400 ppm (recommended sweet spot for my IC40). I noticed that the pool was "less clear" the day after adding. I've been marveling at how clear things are up to this point, but on Sunday (I added salt on Sat) it seemed cloudier when looking end to end underwater. Would salt cause the water to be cloudier than having no salt?

    The only other thing that happened was we did leave the pool cover off on Sat night, but there wasn't any rain or anything...

    SWCG is running at 60% right now (it's been operating since Sat PM) and I've still got some chlorine puck remnants in the skimmer baskets.

    FYI:
    FC: 3.5
    CC: <.5
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 110
    CH: 230
    CYA: 30ish (slowly raising)
    ETOH: Yes

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Salt can sometimes cause the water to cloud up for a little while, because of dust that sometimes get into the salt, but that usually only lasts a short while (minutes). Water that is cloudy 24 hours later is something other than salt.

    Your CYA level is very low for use with a SWG. We recommend CYA between 70 and 80 for use with a SWG. Low CYA levels with a SWG can lead to wild swings in the FC level which could lead to cloudy water.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    I've been trying to slow play the CYA, I think because of reading all of the "my CYA is 700!" posts on here.

    I've currently got a sock full of CYA in one of the skimmers, just added on Sat AM and I've been running the pump 24x7.

    Edited to add: The salt I used was Morton's Solar Salt Crystals ("99.5% pure salt!")

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    I too am not sure what is causing your clouding, by now it should not be the salt...might make sense to do a OCLT? http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...rnight_fc_test If you decide to do it, do it with the swg off and maybe raise your FC closer to shocking level. My clarity was not affected when I added salt. What is ETOH...were you drinking?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Hello All,

    So good to be back.
    Sea water contains salt easily 35,000 PPM and when it is clear, it is so clear that makes a clean pool look less sparkling
    .
    35,000 GL pool. In Ground. Concrete with all white ceramic tiles. Outdoor but shaded.
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABQ_Pool
    I've been trying to slow play the CYA, I think because of reading all of the "my CYA is 700!" posts on here.
    I wouldn't worry too much about that - the crazy high CYAs come from extended use of dichlor/trichlor without knowing about the effect that has on CYA. It's certainly sensible to add your CYA in a couple batches for better control, but I wouldn't bother trying to do it in 5-10 ppm increments or anything that slow.
    20k gallon IGP
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beamup
    I wouldn't worry too much about that - the crazy high CYAs come from extended use of dichlor/trichlor without knowing about the effect that has on CYA. It's certainly sensible to add your CYA in a couple batches for better control, but I wouldn't bother trying to do it in 5-10 ppm increments or anything that slow.
    I agree with Beamup, if you have a good test kit for CYA and can get reasonably repeatable results, you are not using uncontroled CYA (ie you keep accurate track of how much you add whether straight CYA or through using pucks0, and you know the true volume of your pool, then there is no reason not to go to at least the lower end of the recommended CYA range for your situation, then test again. If you are not adding it, CYA does not go up (unless you have not given what you added enough time to show up on test). From what I have seen, most folks with your swg on here, use the 70-80 ppm CYA range effectively.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Thanks for the info-

    I was unsure about adding more CYA since I was still on pucks through last week. Since there won't be any other sources of CYA at this time, I've been filling a sock and letting it soak for a week before adding another. The last CYA sock I added was Sat AM, so I'll have a better idea on where I'm at this weekend.

    I think I'll hold off on the OCLT for now - the pool has had some chlorine swings (I've always had 2-3 pucks in the skimmers at all times, pump running 24x7 and I've supplemented with Clorox), but I don't think it's been low enough for long enough to have an algae issue (I hope). I haven't earned my Pool School degree yet, but wouldn't my CC be higher if I truly had an algae issue? It was less than 0.5 yesterday and 0 today (I'm still trying to dial in my SWG and the FC was 8.5 this AM )

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABQ_Pool

    I think I'll hold off on the OCLT for now - the pool has had some chlorine swings (I've always had 2-3 pucks in the skimmers at all times, pump running 24x7 and I've supplemented with Clorox), but I don't think it's been low enough for long enough to have an algae issue (I hope). I haven't earned my Pool School degree yet, but wouldn't my CC be higher if I truly had an algae issue? It was less than 0.5 yesterday and 0 today (I'm still trying to dial in my SWG and the FC was 8.5 this AM )
    Wanna hear my algae salt story? (no algae salt exists, that's a joke)

    My pool is always maintained daily with chlorine. I rarely get even .5ppm CC.

    CYA at 40. So I dose the pool to 7.5ppm with my son. We're actually having a lesson so we test, and then add precisely 1 cup 2oz for each ppm chlorine we want to add. I tipped the pool with a little over half a cup (.5ppm) for being such a good pool that day.

    Later that evening H and I added salt. And brushed. It dissolved nicely.

    The next day I realize one of our cats is missing and spend the day looking for her. About noon that day I look into the pool and it seems a little... "dull" smelling. Later that day I think I catch a tint of green as the last of the sun ducks behind the house and off the pool. But I disregard that for the moment because we're all hot and tired from posting flyers for the cat, a kid wants to swim.

    So it continues to smell just a bit off. It rarely smells anything other than fresh, so this is a bigger red flag to me than the hint of green I thought I saw. An hour after the kid swam I found the time to test. Guess what? A big whopping 0 FC. Nothing. Nada.

    I've never seen 0 FC before, not since we switched to BBB last season. I was shocked to say the least. I'd just dosed the pool to above the high target the night before like I always do. I never fall below minimum, and certainly not 0 by six pm.

    So I blamed the salt. And posted here about it but after discussing it, it probably was not the salt or if it was, there was something in/on the bag that was not brand new (stored in our garage).

    There was one incident about a week before that I'd found the pool to be at 1.5ppm. I had been gone for a day at my cousin's wedding, drank enough to make me tired and forgot to dose the pool at 3am when we got home that night. It was a sunny day, a for sure dose day but since it was like the FIRST sunny hot day we'd had all summer I blew it off. Sun makes a huge difference in chlorine loss. I can skip dosing on cloudy days easily.

    Anyway, that is the only below minimum incident I can report of all summer. It was a week before the algae bloom. And I think it just coincided with the salt addition rather than any result of the salt.

    Moral of the algae salt story is... algae will git ya, and it can git ya fast.

    Good news is, because I was able to test, then shock, then maintain, and then do the OCLT the next night. Kids were swimming the day after shocking once the FC was under 10ppm.

    See? Algae salt! lol
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Thanks for the info - I thought for sure the missing cat was going to be a factor in the smell of the pool.

    I'll keep an eye on things and maybe do the OCLT over the weekend. I actually had to turn the SWG down as the FC was 9.5 this AM and 0.5 (or less) CC.

    My main issue is that everything is new - pool is a little over a month old, SWG has seen less than a week of use, plaster is still curing, etc. so I don't know what my "normal" is for anything. And, before I can determine, I'll be winterizing.

    Oh well - there are way worse problems to have!

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABQ_Pool
    pool is a little over a month old
    Ahhh now some of this makes more sense...just a note for others, just finishing start up on new plaster is a significant piece of information important for us to know when troubleshooting pools! I am assuming you have read?: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...aster_start-up Keep in mind that your pool will probably require a lot of MA during the next few months...not sure how winterization should be treated for a new plaster pool...anyone?

    Do you know how many pucks you have used? Also how much CYA have you added outside of the pucks?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Yes - I've been following the start-up procedures posted here. I've been following the guidelines and using pucks (approximately 20), clorox (supplemental), muriatic acid (daily or every other day), a little calcium and I've added approx 20oz of CYA in the last two weeks (10oz of this was just added Sat and is still dissolving). As of yesterday AM, my CYA was still at 30.

    My numbers have been relatively stable and the water has been super clear. I have had the odd day where we swam the day/evening before and I didn't add any additional chemicals, so in the morning I had to add MA and clorox, but nothing too major. I was just commenting that now that it's been 30+ days since the plaster has been on, I added salt and it seemed to cloud the water slightly.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    So for your 22000 gallon pool, I get 11 ppm rise due to the pucks (assuming they are 3 oz trichlor pucks) and 7 ppm rise due to the 20 ounces of dry CYA added. That is a total of 18 ppm. Seems very low, I am not sure you actually have 30 per your measurements (low CYA can be tough to measure). At that CYA level you are going to be challenged to keep your FC level up while sun is on your pool (regardless if you have pucks in pool or not). Are you pretty sure on the number of pucks? I would do that OCLT!
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Hmm - I was guesstimating on pucks - I've had 2-3 in the pool at any one time, with each puck lasting about 3ish days. I used pucks for the first 30 days and aren't planning on adding any more. I have a 1.75lb bottle of stabilizer and I have about 1/3 left in the bottle (which I'll add the remainder this weekend). I checked CYA again this AM and at the 30 mark, I could still slightly see the dot, I then filled it to the midpoint between 20 and 30 and it was completely gone at that point, so I put it down as "25". I left the cover off yesterday since my FC was approaching 10, kept the pool pump running and the SWG at 40%. This AM my FC was 7 and CC was 0. Pool is covered for today.

    I'll perform the OCLT test tonight.

    Thank you - I do appreciate the info!

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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Performed the OCLT test - last night I shut the SWG off an hour before testing. Tested after sundown, got FC of 7.5; this AM (pre-dawn) got a FC of 7.0

    We'll do plenty of swimming over the 3 day weekend coming up, I'll reassess the clarity then.

    Also - added the remainder of the stabilizer - so after this last part dissolves I'll have 1.75 lb of CYA in the pool plus whatever amount the pucks delivered. CYA still around 25 as of this AM.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Does salt decrease visibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by ABQ_Pool
    Performed the OCLT test - last night I shut the SWG off an hour before testing. Tested after sundown, got FC of 7.5; this AM (pre-dawn) got a FC of 7.0

    We'll do plenty of swimming over the 3 day weekend coming up, I'll reassess the clarity then.

    Also - added the remainder of the stabilizer - so after this last part dissolves I'll have 1.75 lb of CYA in the pool plus whatever amount the pucks delivered. CYA still around 25 as of this AM.
    Sounds like the OCLT came out good. If you still suspect a clarity(due to algae) problem, at some point raise your FC level up to shock and repeat the OCLT. Occasionally, it requires a higher FC level to see that the pool is fighting something.
    How is the clarity now?
    Per CYA...the running total I am seeing is around 21 ppm (11 for the pucks and 10 for the CYA). This is quite low, but since you are winterizing, you might be able to ride it out. It will require your swg to run longer or at a higher output, especially when there is a lot of sun and swimmers, etc.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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