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Thread: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

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    Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Hey guys! I woke up this morning to see my pool liner floating thanks to Hurrican Irene. Pictures attached.

    I'm not 100% sure why, but am almost certain it has to do with the water table. I had well over 14 inches of rain in 24 hours. I do not see any large tears nor do I see any large branches in the pool.

    The liner is 4 years old but seems to be in very good shape (very flexible). I believe this can be repaired vs. replacing. Keep in mind I'm in NY and have a short pool season, therefore the liner is not as old as its age suggests.

    I have a dedicated line to suck out water and air from behind the liner. I'm not sure my shop vac will be powerful enough to do it but obviously am willing to try. So where do I start? Repair first, adjust chemicals, wait for water table to subside, etc.? Should I run the pumps?

    I skimmed the pool but the winds are still a little strong and making this pointless till tomorrow.

    I called a couple of pool guys incase this gets over my head. Can anyone ball park the price I should expect to correct this?

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Man! Sorry about your plight, and hope this is as bad as it got for you. I would keep the chlorine and pH right until you know what else you may have to do. No reason to let that go. See how it goes sucking out from behind it, but I bet your gonna need that pool company. Sorry too that I have no idea on the cost. Rotten Luck!

    Hoping good things for you.
    TFP Moderator
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    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Don't rush to do something. You may be surprised what a couple of days will do.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    lindaspoolboy's Avatar
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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    i have the same problem and just spoke with my pool guy.

    he says there's nothing they can do about the ripples in the liner
    even after all the water has receded.
    is that true ?!

    - lindaspoolboy
    29,000 gallon vinyl IG, Hayward 1.5hp Pump, DE Filter.

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    I woke this morning to see the water level down about an inch. This tells me one of three things (I'm sure you may think of more).

    1- I do have a leak and that is why the water is behind the liner or
    2- The water behind the liner is resceding and making my pool water look low or
    3- I drank too much while riding the storm out and now have no idea where the water level really was.

    How does the water get back there anyway? When they built the pool, a layer of vermiculate was laid under the liner. Shouldn't the vermiculite stop the water from entering? I know vermiculite is not "waterproof" but this much? I know the water level never went over the top of the liner and behind it as I was pumping out the pool water at the same rate the pool was filling.

    Can I run the pump in this condition?


    Thanks. Please keep the advice comming.
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    If the water behind the liner is receding that will make your level go down a little. Like I said, don't panic or get in a rush just yet.


    Poolboy -- They can drain and reset but there's a danger in that so it's usually best to just leave them. You could try lowering the water level a lot and using a plumbers friend to work the wrinkles out but that may cause even more problems as the water table is probably going to be high for a while.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Frequently, liners do not re-seat exactly and result in wrinkles. If you have a drywell, it might speed things up. Be prepared to stop and start a connected pump and have a pool brush handy to try to move the liner as needed.

    Liners in the NE do not last as long as in the South because of Winter. Normal liner life in our region is 7 to 12 years.

    I don't like draining much below the break without a multistage vac attached between the wall and liner. Wrinkles on the slope are often going to be permanent, as far as the liner is concerned.

    The water table is high from the rain. To test, take a shovel and dig a hole near the pool. It is also likely flowing a bit. Food coloring will prove that out too.

    Vermiculite is not water tight. It just provides a firm, smooth surface for the liner to rest on.

    A hole is a possibility with a floated liner, though it may come after the liner floated. Check the return faceplates, step gaskets and skimmer plates. A floated liner may cause a tear there.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Samantha_in_AL's Avatar
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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Wow Craig, I'm really sorry this happened. Any updates? Is the water receding yet?
    AG 18' X 52" Round Pacifica Pool w/ Metal Diamond Unibead Liner. Installed in March 2007.
    2.5 HP Baquapure 2 Speed Pump, 200 GPM Waterway ProClean Cartridge Filter System.


    Former Baquacil user
    Converted to BBB in Fall of 2009 - Now I have a truly trouble free pool!

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Craig, I gotta go with #2 (though #3 is a funny option ) #1 just can't happen - the weight of the pool water would keep any lost water from being able to float the liner.

    You've got ground water issues, as evidenced by the PB leaving you a 'well point'. Perhaps a curtain drain would help. 14" of rain from Irene only exacerbated the existing issue.

    The beauty of vermiculite is that, while a solid base for the liner, it allows water to pass through it - however, in your case, this is not such a good thing --- as water passes through the verm, it also washes out the cement that holds it together, which can lead to soft areas in the finish

    A 4 year old liner can be reset to remove the wrinkles - alternatively, you might be ale to use your pool brush to work out the wrinkles as the water behind the liner recedes.

    Scott has been a good resource for you, please listen to him!

    I wish you the best with this and will proffer any help I can
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Here's what I use: a small utility pump, a piece of 3/4 or 1" PVC pipe with a threaded male end with a transition fitting to hose thread. This goes in between liner and metal side wall to base of shallow end. Let it run and the water and most of the wrinkles should go away. I used PVC because it is easier to insert and remove than flexible hose. When pulling it out, the water pressure on the liner is high and the PVC slides out much easier than rubber hose. I chamfered the end of the PVC so it isn't sharp and cut 1-2" slots up from the end it so water can enter from more than just a blunt end of pipe.
    [attachment=0:hfe09oj7]photo-2.JPG[/attachment:hfe09oj7]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    25,000 gallon
    16' x32' Rectangle IG, Vinyl liner
    DE filter

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Just to put some closure on this thread.

    I had a pool guy come by and give me an estimate $100 - $125 to fix. With that price I figured I would let him do it and take the advice on ealier posts to wait and see. The morning the pool guy was coming, the liner went back exactly with no extra wrinkles. Cool $100 saved!

    The only extra work was to reset the liner in the bead which I learned to do easily with hot water. I do have an issue here as this is the same place I made an earlier post that I have air behind the liner. It is definitely air as I was now able to see behind it and there is no wall foam. When I reset the liner it just does not sit against the wall nice and seems to pop out fairly easily. I can push it into the bead more, but it does not seem to lock when inserted all the way, only when the bubble apears does it lock.

    Thanks for the advice, and hope this thread is never needed, but if so; can assist someone else.
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Re: Floating Liner....Thanks Irene!

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    Craig, I gotta go with #2 (though #3 is a funny option ) #1 just can't happen - the weight of the pool water would keep any lost water from being able to float the liner.

    You've got ground water issues, as evidenced by the PB leaving you a 'well point'. Perhaps a curtain drain would help. 14" of rain from Irene only exacerbated the existing issue.

    The beauty of vermiculite is that, while a solid base for the liner, it allows water to pass through it - however, in your case, this is not such a good thing --- as water passes through the verm, it also washes out the cement that holds it together, which can lead to soft areas in the finish

    A 4 year old liner can be reset to remove the wrinkles - alternatively, you might be ale to use your pool brush to work out the wrinkles as the water behind the liner recedes.

    Scott has been a good resource for you, please listen to him!

    I wish you the best with this and will proffer any help I can
    Actually
    #1 can happen, I had to repair a huge leak in a pool (losing water faster than garden hose can fill). The crack in the vinyl was about 2.5 feet long in the cove. There was so much water behind the liner that is was like trying to put a patch on a hung shower curtain. I had to put a large temporary patch in place and hold it to the cove with sand bags, suck out the water behind the liner with a pump and then wait for the remaining water to leave on it's own to apply the permanent patch.

    Regardless I would bet it's the underground water from the storm.
    -Kevin
    X-Pert Pool Service
    x-pertpool.com
    X-Pert Pool on Facebook and @XPertPoolServic on Twitter
    22,000 gal / 16' x 32' / Vinyl / Hayward s244t /Pentair SuperFlo 1 hp

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