Large rectangular vinyl in S.E. Indiana

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zech

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Aug 19, 2011
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Everyone, I'd love some useful feedback on the crazy endeavor I am considering. Trying to search and read other posts too, so sorry if this is annoying to ask:

I'm between Indianapolis and Cincinnati (closer to Cincinnati) and am looking to build a large, simple rectangle (ideally). Here are my thoughts so far; perhaps a little optimistic/audacious on some points, so I may have to throttle back a bit...

24 x 50 (started at 20 x 50 and added a little)

10 foot in deep end
3.5 feet deep in shallow end

14 feet from deep end wall to lower line of transition
19.5 foot transition section
14 foot long shallow end
2.5 foot long shallow end stairs

full width steel steps along shallow end wall
relatively small radius corners (6" I guess)
plastic panels (I think)
8' diving board center of deep end wall
considering automatic cover (pricey though, so not sure)
DYI install depending on cost

Issues:

worried about concrete truck on my long asphalt drive, so I may need to mix my own bottom and grade beam, and use pavers for the patio.

Due to schedule, I may have to hang the liner and fill the pool in the spring. Any experience there?

Considering a foundation drain to help prevent liner float. Pool will be near (not in) a low point, with ground graded away, but still concerned about ground water.

I have some existing fall to resolve (about 3 feet) from the shallow end (near the house) toward the deep end.

Not sure about depth related to available liners, and potential for ground rock. I'll order the liner after the hole is done.

Is a liner this big readily available?

Not sure yet on pumps, filter, chemicals, and all things plumbing - appreciate your advice.

Looking for recommendations on builders and suppliers...

Any experience on automatic covers? I know they can help reduce the need for heating, chemicals, and fencing. Do they pay for themselves eventually, or are they problematic?

Thank you!!!
 
The liner is easy, once you have measurements they can manufacture the liner with in days- especially if you express it. I would really advise against waiting to hang the liner if possible... The auto Covers are Great and just that Expensive. If you have children it is great, and cuts down on chemicals and maintence. A family memeber has the Autocover. They become hard to deal with at around year 7, as they had to replace their whole tarp cover and cost around 800 bucks I believe... Not too bad...
 
How are you excavating your hole? If you're worried about your driveway, you may run into issues with the weight of the backhoe and/or dump trucks. Also, check your building code on depths. They may have specific bottom slope requirements which could affect how you want you pool depth to be. Lastly, 24 x 50 is a huge pool. I'm sure they make auto-covers that big, but it will likely be at a significant expense (possibly more than the pool itself if you DIY).
 
Thanks! I appreciate the comments (and any more to come...)

Tatertot, (our nick-name for our daughter Kate...)
Liner availability: Thanks for the reassurance.
Liner hanging: I'll work hard to get it hung and filled this year if at all possible then. Thanks!
question: does the vermiculite dry hard and permanent (like concrete) or stay pliable (like clay)? Would rain water damage the vermiculite layer if it sets uncovered through the winter??
Autocover: Still debating it. $800 is not as bad as I expected for the material. 7 years is a little too short though...

Rockhopper (off-roader, I presume?)
Excavation: I have land enough (and some good use I might add) for the dirt, so I won't need dump trucks. question: how thick (minimum) is a grade beam (behind the panels?) typically? Good point still on the equipment. I had considered excavating it with my tractor/loader, but I think that will take too long, because with each scoop I'd need to leave the hole to dump it. I'll probably rent/hire an excavator, and see it come in on a flat bed. I'll check on the weight there, but I think its a bit safer.
Building code: I've been there a bit, but will look some more.
Size: I know its pretty huge, not completely sure this is a full go. It doesn't look that bid marked on the ground at this point, but I know size perception changes at various stages when you build things. I'll probably have to drop the autocover due to price...

I've talked to a couple concrete companies, and have gotten mixed reviews about the driveway. Some say getting a "mini-mix" will work, others say a small load (5 yd) in their full size trucks with "floatation tires" and extended wheels (for crossing weak bridges) make these less weight per square inch than a pickup truck with a large load. Not sure who to believe, and wish I had some solid examples. One thing for sure, tearing up our driveway to put a pool in would be a solid step backwards. I may have to hand mix the grade beam, and do cheap pavers in lieu of concrete patio.

Still much, much to research on this project. This site (and community) is fantastic!!

Any more comments out there??

question: Has anyone here done a safety ledge with an in-ground, liner type, panel with vermiculite construction? If so, what are the complications? I see this as a tick box in a custom liner measurement form, and had previously assumed that was a major problem for liners.
 
I can comment on a few things!

We looked into having the full length steps made from steel and found it was more costly by a couple hundred dollars than forming them ourselves and having them poured.

We have a long narrow concrete drive. We had the big concrete truck deliver the concrete for our base step. Yep, broke it up pretty bad. In fact, they divided the amount we needed into two trucks so the loads wouldn't be as heavy. We guided truck A in and he only broke some of the drive. While we were busy with truck A, we didn't notice truck B had showed up. He drove in a different way and broke up a different area! Job security at it's best! As for cost, we had the support for the walls poured and the first step at $800. We still need to get two more steps poured but we are slow at building forms.


As for vermiculite, ours is cured in some spots. I would liken the consistency to asphalt. You can put a mark in it with something sharp. I even shaved high spots with a shovel. After the first day, we drove a filled wheel barrow over it with no problem.

Our liner will be custom because of the custom step and we were told it would be 3-5 days after placing order.

Covers: we ordered from Autocover. Great customer service. We first inquired with them because they offer a manual cover that you can convert to auto later. But, your pool will be too big for the manual cover. They were also one of the few companies that sold to us direct even knowing we would be installing it ourselves. And yes, the cover was more $$ than the ENTIRE pool ($8800). But, our kids get good grades, they help around the house, and they are really funny so we want to keep them around! Plus, I'm not interested in getting grass clippings in my pool when I mow. This price included the coping too.

We have a similar grade issue as you also. Our yard slopes away so that we have to fill nearly three feet at the west and north ends. We also noticed that when it rained hard for two days, the over dig around the pool has standing water in it. Lots of clay to hold it all in. We are considering what we will do to control the water. Probably put in a drainage tile around the entire perimeter.

We have done everything absolutely ourselves so far. It is extremely labor intensive, but worth the savings so far. The worst headache is the constant mess that is being tracked into the house daily. The kids, the dog, the husband! I have a pile of thirty+ shoes on my back porch because the mud builds up like bricks on them. Muddy people coming in constantly to use the bathroom and get drinks. I wipe down my fridge handles about every hour! Ahhhh, the memories being made! The best of luck with your pool journey!
 
bobby,
Our drive has some tight bottle-necks with trees and culvert pipes, so I don't think we can get all the way through. I spoke to a pumper who said he has a machine that can push 1000 feet; but at a steep cost. Still doing some creative thinking on this.

new question: how thick is a grade beam / footer? I need to calculate the amount of concrete necessary for it. I may have to bring bags in and hand mix them on site (insane?) The patio / deck may need to be pavers instead of concrete.

Cornflake,
Thanks for the comments. I hope your drive is repairable. We had a small concrete drive in our previous house that had cracked due to sinking, and we had it raised back to level with a concrete lifting service, and it worked out pretty good. I doubt asphalt would accommodate that technique.

My wife would love your sense of humor, I think I'll point her to your posts. I'm glad you're able to enjoy the ride so much!
 

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zech,

take a look at this old post. Similar sized pool similar issues.

an-unusual-pool-build-t10597.html?hilit=an%20unusual%20pool%20build

I can help with several of your questions spread out a little. I'll start by saying you will need thousands of VERY strong friends if you intend to mix concrete DIY. :mrgreen:

I used 11 yards in the footer.

You would not want to leave vermiculite mix exposed for the winter. It is quite porous and would freeze and lose it's integrity, I'm sure.
 
Dave,

Thanks for the link and input. Fantastic job on your pool! Do you have a thought on comparing the cinder-block construction to the typical panels? I have thought about that too, but don't know about cost and labor. Did it complicate the penetrations and connections for skimmers and other devices? It does seem like it would be stronger and last for a long, long time. Also, the comments you had received on rounded corners being easier to clean, and about blowing out drains with check-valves. What's that all about?

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on what you did, and what you would do differently next time (besides never doing it again!). I realize that may be a tall order, so if some other format works better for you, just let me know.

I know this forum has a huge amount of info on it, and I am crawling through, so sorry if I am asking redundant questions...

Thanks!!!
 
My genius neighbor built a pool just like this (cinder block) He had a 4 foot end and a 9 foot deep end. He was the one who encouraged us to build our own. We did not follow his advice for cinder block because we though the panels would be easier. NOT so! Since we were shorted an end, we were 'blessed' with the ability to compare both ways with our pool. The panels took days to shore up and level correctly. With the cinder block, we just poured the footer and started stacking. The neighbor built his 20 years ago for $4000. Our basic pool package (minus one end) was over $8000. The other reason we shyed away from cinder block was I really wanted a three foot shallow end because I'm only 4'12" :wink: and the kids are still so small. To do this, we would have to cut so many blocks. The panels saved us some hard labor, but wasted so much actual time leveling them.
 
Hey everyone!

I am trying to lay out my pool design, and wanted some input from the experts here on the subject of pool element locations (and count). I especially appreciate thoughts from any who have experience with similar configurations to verify (or correct) my design. Please fire away...

My design (as stated above) is a 24' x 50' standard rectangle, with a deep and shallow end. My initial design includes corner steps, 8 returns, 4 skimmers, two lights, a diving board, 6" safety ledge, and two recessed ladders with figure4 rails.

I am attaching a PDF of the layout I have so far.

Here are my questions:
- Where are the ladders typically located exactly?
- Is it true that I need to design the returns to circulate the pool into (slow) whirlpool loop? I've had this recommended for proper skimmer operation. Is my count and configuration for the skimmers and returns appropriate?
- Where should the lights go? Is two enough? Note here that I have them on a wall that will not be visible from the house side view.
- Are you aware of recommended or required tread and riser dimensions on the steps? Presently, I have 9.5" riser and 12" treads. The top level is enlarged a little for sitting, but only has about 2" of water over it (to evenly divide the height between steps. Is the liner (over the steps) going to get too much sun with that little coverage? I don't want the first step into the pool to be too low...
- Anyone out there have experience with true corners? Is the liner stressed out there, or hard to clean, or subject to floating out? I am preferring the look of true corners, plus I think it makes the autocover and patio design a little easier...

Thanks for all the help!!

[attachment=0:9tzpolhr]pool Layout.pdf[/attachment:9tzpolhr]
 

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