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Thread: Dicholor to shock pool ?

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    Dicholor to shock pool ?

    I have had my pool up for 10 days and just turned the filter on 2 days ago. Wasnt sure it was safe or not without having the electrical
    turned on but apparently its ok temporarily as long as its plugged in to GFCI outlet.
    Anyway---
    My FC was at 0 yesterday. I added appoximately 44 ounces of bleach. Tested today with TF100 kit (the simple test) and chlorine was up between .5 and 1.
    I added another 30 oz of bleach---I also purchase some dicholor powder. (2 single packs)
    I took my water to the pool store to analyze being I was there anyway. They said my CYA is at 10 PPM and my FC was at .2.
    I will test my CYA and FC again before shocking.
    Looking at the CYA/FC table, it says I would have to get my FC up to 20 before I could add the Dicholor to get my CYA up to 50 ? Is that accurate ?
    Or do I just add the Dicholor and see what it does to my FC/CYSA levels ?
    Sorry if these are dumb questions, its all new to me. I do have the TF100 kit so I guess I am in good shape there. Everywhere else, not so much. :/
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    If you did not yet add any dichlor, your CYA is zero. The tests are hard to read when it is that low. Don't bother to test at this point. If you did not add it, it is not there yet. Tap water has no CYA in it.

    So, assume CYA is 0, then enter that into the Pool Calculator. Find the amount of CYA you need in ounces. You can add that with "stabilizer" or with dichlor. If you go to the bottom of the Pool Calculator, you will see Effects of Adding Chemicals. Play with this until you find the amount of dichlor you need to use to get your CYA up to 30. (30 is probably high enough for PA in my opinion, you need more further south). Write down that number, for you can use dichlor for normal chlorination until you use that total amount. After that, you will switch to bleach.

    Next, you need to know how much dichlor to use now. Your FC is probably zero by now, so enter 0 in the Now column and 3.0 in the Goal column. You can add that amount every day. Keep track of when that amount gets you to CYA of 10, 20, 30 and adjust the amount of dichlor you use daily as the Goal FC changes.

    Be patient, someone else may come along to give you easier instructions, like some volume daily until some date, then go to bleach. I can't figure your pool volume at this point to do any better.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    IF your CYA was truly 10 ppm, then you could just add Dichlor which will increase both your FC and your CYA. For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it will increase CYA by 9 ppm. So if you added 10 ppm FC with Dichlor, your CYA would get to 19 ppm. When the chlorine level drops, which it should in sunlight if the CYA is that low, you can add more Dichlor to add both FC and CYA. Of course, I'm assuming you are doing this because you already have Dichlor; otherwise, you could just use bleach for chlorine and use pure CYA to raise the CYA.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    ok so lets say my CYA is 0 and my FC is 0 and I am wanting to shock the pool I guess(I read elsewhere on here if my FC is 0 then I should definitely shock the pool. Do I still need to worry about the alkalinity and all water hardness etc or should I just focus on getting CYA and FC levels where they should be ? When I asked for Dicholor the pool store gave me sunburst sunguard "fast shock. It states it is shock, algecide and stabilizer all in one.
    The ingredients are 99.0 sodium dichloro0s-triazinetrione dihydrate. I have one lound of this in powder form. Do I just dump the whole thing in in front of the return jet ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Remember to adjust your CYA:FC ratio as you shock the pool.

    So, say you raise FC to 10ppm for shocking with 0 CYA. You just added 9ppm CYA to the pool. An hour passes (we're going to assume you're going to shock according to pool school) and you test the pool at 3ppm FC. So now you add dichlor to again reach 10ppm (maintaining shock level).

    But wait... you just added 7ppm of dichlor... now your CYA is over 15ppm. And your shock level has now risen to 11ppm. You will have to add 1ppm dichlor to be at shock level. For every 9/10 ppm of FC you're adding 1ppm CYA. Nearly a 1:1 ratio.

    At 22ppm CYA shock level will change to 12ppm. And so on. Just make sure to count the dichlor ppm's that you add. Your test kit will help you with this, use the FAS-DPD test for shocking btw.

    http://poolcalculator.com is where I got these numbers.

    You can broadcast dichlor. Then brush it so it doesn't lie on the bottom.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by frogabog
    Remember to adjust your CYA:FC ratio as you shock the pool.

    So, say you raise FC to 10ppm for shocking with 0 CYA. You just added 9ppm CYA to the pool. An hour passes (we're going to assume you're going to shock according to pool school) and you test the pool at 3ppm FC. So now you add dichlor to again reach 10ppm (maintaining shock level).

    But wait... you just added 7ppm of dichlor... now your CYA is over 15ppm. And your shock level has now risen to 11ppm. You will have to add 1ppm dichlor to be at shock level. For every 9/10 ppm of FC you're adding 1ppm CYA. Nearly a 1:1 ratio.

    At 22ppm CYA shock level will change to 12ppm. And so on. Just make sure to count the dichlor ppm's that you add. Your test kit will help you with this, use the FAS-DPD test for shocking btw.

    http://poolcalculator.com is where I got these numbers.

    You can broadcast dichlor. Then brush it so it doesn't lie on the bottom.
    Sorry I am not understanding "raising it to shock level"
    Can I just dump the powder I described into the pool and swish it around with the skimmer net ? Like right now ?
    Or do I have to add a bunch of bleach to bring the FC level up to 10 (CYA would be 0 still) and THEN dump in powder I got ? the full pound of it ?
    how does a pound of shock relate to the PPM measurement ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    You should never just dump chemicals in the pool. Follow the instructions on the bag. The effect of adding various products to your pool water can be calculated using poolcalculator.com
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    You should never just dump chemicals in the pool. Follow the instructions on the bag. The effect of adding various products to your pool water can be calculated using poolcalculator.com
    Instructions on the bag don't cover the size of the pool. I assume what I have is like a "quick" shock. I am currently only running my filter 6-8 hours a day(only when I am home) because I don't have dedicated electric yet. I put description earlier in thread.
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    You should never just dump chemicals in the pool. Follow the instructions on the bag. The effect of adding various products to your pool water can be calculated using poolcalculator.com
    Instructions on the bag don't cover the size of the pool. I assume what I have is like a "quick" shock. I am currently only running my filter 6-8 hours a day(only when I am home) because I don't have dedicated electric yet. I put description earlier in thread.
    If it says Dichlor, then it is just that. Lacking package directions, you should predisolve it in a bucket of water and pour the solution in front of a return while the pump is running. Pool volume and the effect of adding 1lb of dichlor to your pool can be calculated at www.poolcalculator.com
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Sorry I am not understanding "raising it to shock level"
    Raising to shock level simply means adding chlorine to reach shock level. Testing prior to adding the chlorine tells you how many ppm's to add. The pool calculator takes all the guesswork out of quantifying ppm's. If the pool volume if off however, it won't be accurate. So, if the calculator says add x amount of chlorine to reach shock level, and you test later above shock level you'll want to re-calculate your volume.

    The dichlor will raise the chlorine level, but you're aiming for shock level per your CYA level. That number is found in the Chlorine:CYA chart in pool school, and also in the pool calculator automatically adjusted as you change your "now" CYA level within the calculator.

    If you add dichlor, use the calculator to get the quantity to add for your pool volume, not just a whole packet (it could take more than one packet). Then recalculate shock level according to how many ppm's you've added of dichlor. So, if you add 10ppm of dichlor, change your "now" CYA level to 9. Go test the pool an hour later and maybe it tests at 7ppm FC. Again, add 3ppm dichlor to raise it back to shock level of 10ppm.

    Use the calculator again to determine how much dichlor to add to get back to 10ppm FC. Once you've added enough dichlor to reach 15ppm CYA, again change the "now" CYA value to 15. Now your target shock level is 11ppm instead of 10ppm. When you get to 23ppm CYA, your shock level will become 12ppm.

    Can I just dump the powder I described into the pool and swish it around with the skimmer net ? Like right now ?
    Or do I have to add a bunch of bleach to bring the FC level up to 10 (CYA would be 0 still) and THEN dump in powder I got ? the full pound of it ?
    how does a pound of shock relate to the PPM measurement ?
    Any time I've used powdered shock product, we just broadcasted it into the pool and then brushed. As others have said, check the directions.

    When you get all your numbers dialed into the pool calculator, it'll tell you exactly how many ppm's a pound of shock product will add to the pool. Make sure to change the chlorine source to dichlor in the chlorine section at the top.

    You'll want to stop using dichlor once you reach 30ppm CYA. At that point, only use bleach for all chlorinating purposes unless you wish to raise CYA again. Remember that it's nearly 1:1 for dichlor, every ppm that you put in will add nearly 1ppm CYA.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    In order to control your pool, you must know what is in it now and what it needs. You have the tools you need; the test kit and the Pool Calculator. They work together. If you will begin a pool book and take notes of your tests, what you add, and the advice you get here, soon it will all make perfect sense.

    Begin with your test data, then go to the Pool Calculator. Take notes on what it tells you to do. Then post back to see if the forum agrees that you understand what to do next.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Thank you all for the replies.
    Based on the calculator, If I add a pound of shock it will raise my FC to 6.4 and my CYA to 5.8.
    I tested my FC and PH and my FC came in at 1.0 my PH was 7.2 ---Being I filled the pool with tap water about 11 days ago I would assume my CYA is at zero.
    I will add the shock, run the filter for 5 or 6 hours, and then test. I am sure I will probably need to add another packet tomorrow.
    I am confused about one thing. On the pool calculator(drilling down a bit). I read this...
    "Be careful if your CYA level is really and truly zero. When CYA is really zero you should not bring the FC level above 5." My CYA should absolutely be zero because I have never added any CYA to the pool and it is only tapwater I have filled it with. Should I just buy stabilizer to raise the CYA before adding dicholor ?
    My pool walls are definitely greasy so I need to do something. But now after reading that wahat I posted above, Im not sure how to proceed.
    The stabilizer supposedly takes a week to work---but my pool is having issues now. suggestions ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    You need to add enough dichlor to raise it to 10ppm. 6 is not near enough to shock the pool.

    Then, you'll need to test it an hour after you add the dichlor, and add more to again reach 10ppm. It will loose chlorine rapidly at the beginning of the process, it must be maintained at shock level to have any effect on the algae.

    Don't bother putting the shock product into the pool if you can't put enough in to reach shock level and if you can't keep it at shock level. It will do nothing to solve your problem, waste of time and money.

    Is there some reason you don't want to use bleach? If you add CYA manually, do NOT use the dichlor to shock the pool. Use bleach.

    Adding CYA manually to 30ppm and then shocking with bleach would be the way I would do it. No guesswork regarding CYA. If you add CYA in a sock and squish it till it's gone from the sock it's in the pool. It can take a week for CYA to register on a test, it's effective within 24 hours after it's all dissolved however.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Should I just buy stabilizer to raise the CYA before adding dicholor
    YES!

    I am gonna' hijack this thread just a little and rant about the use of dichlor with newbies.....I have never thought it was a good idea.

    What's easy for those of us that have done this a lot is NOT easy for someone who is just learning the ropes.

    The whole idea of BBB is simplicity and managing two parameters (FC and CYA) at once with di-chlor is problematic. I would suggest to OP that they get stabilizer, calculate the dose to 30ppm, apply it, and then add the appropriate amount of FC. Simple.

    Dichlor is certainly a good product that can often be used but teaching it's use to someone unfamiliar with BBB only makes their life harder.

    OP, save your dichlor for another day and go get CYA separately. Any Lowes, HD, WalMart, etc will have it.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Thank you all for the replies.
    Based on the calculator, If I add a pound of shock it will raise my FC to 6.4 and my CYA to 5.8.
    I tested my FC and PH and my FC came in at 1.0 my PH was 7.2 ---Being I filled the pool with tap water about 11 days ago I would assume my CYA is at zero.
    I will add the shock, run the filter for 5 or 6 hours, and then test. I am sure I will probably need to add another packet tomorrow.
    I am confused about one thing. On the pool calculator(drilling down a bit). I read this...
    "Be careful if your CYA level is really and truly zero. When CYA is really zero you should not bring the FC level above 5." My CYA should absolutely be zero because I have never added any CYA to the pool and it is only tapwater I have filled it with. Should I just buy stabilizer to raise the CYA before adding dicholor ?
    My pool walls are definitely greasy so I need to do something. But now after reading that wahat I posted above, Im not sure how to proceed.
    The stabilizer supposedly takes a week to work---but my pool is having issues now. suggestions ?
    Both Frogabog and I think that the FC will be consumed very fast, so that the little bit that you are above 5.0 will not matter.

    When you put the dichlor into the pool the both the FC and the CYA will be there, the FC faster, the CYA slower. We expect that the CYA will be fully effective in about 24 hours but you cannot count on it showing up on test until a week or sometimes more. That is why we say don't bother to test at first, just use your calculated value.

    So, when you add the first dose of trichlor assuming you use a pound which is enough to get the FC up to 6.4 and CYA to 5.8 from your calcs, in the first hour you will lose most of the FC since the CYA is not fully effective. So that FC will fall pretty fast just due to sunlight and also due to anything organic in the pool. So fast that you do not damage the pool (and it is not like you are going to 10 or 20 ppm at this point, that would be a concern). If you want to be careful, you could add the dichlor in the morning so that sun will do its thing in lowering the FC then wait a few hours and retest FC.

    If FC has dropped pretty low, then add another pound. So if it is 1.0 you add a pound and it is at 7.4 FC, still not terribly high and at this point some amount of the CYA is starting to hold. This will probably get you through the first day. On the next day you can be bolder in your dosing, since you know the CYA is now 11.6 by your calculations.

    Next day, you start at CYA 11.6 and see per the Pool Calculator that you want to shock to FC 10. That is about 2 lbs of dichlor. Now you can do that all at once and then your CYA is calculated to be 23.2. Keep testing FC all day, when it falls to about 5.0, add another pound of dichlor and recalculate everything. With the 5th pound of dichlor CYA calculates to be 29.4 -- STOP.

    You have used the total of 5 lbs of dichlor that you can use before CYA is 30. Now go to bleach to keep at shock levels. At CYA 30 that is shock level of 12 ppm FC. You want to be at or above that OK to go a bit past that but not past 19 ppm which is mustard algae shock level per the Pool Calculator.

    So this is doable, but you see why most of the time we suggest to just buy the stabilizer, get to 30 ppm right away and then start shocking. Just a bit faster and less math involved. You still get to the same place. You see, you can use whatever source of chlorine you want, as long as you know what else it has in it and keep track. Bravo for reading so carefully.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by anonapersona
    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Thank you all for the replies.
    Based on the calculator, If I add a pound of shock it will raise my FC to 6.4 and my CYA to 5.8.
    I tested my FC and PH and my FC came in at 1.0 my PH was 7.2 ---Being I filled the pool with tap water about 11 days ago I would assume my CYA is at zero.
    I will add the shock, run the filter for 5 or 6 hours, and then test. I am sure I will probably need to add another packet tomorrow.
    I am confused about one thing. On the pool calculator(drilling down a bit). I read this...
    "Be careful if your CYA level is really and truly zero. When CYA is really zero you should not bring the FC level above 5." My CYA should absolutely be zero because I have never added any CYA to the pool and it is only tapwater I have filled it with. Should I just buy stabilizer to raise the CYA before adding dicholor ?
    My pool walls are definitely greasy so I need to do something. But now after reading that wahat I posted above, Im not sure how to proceed.
    The stabilizer supposedly takes a week to work---but my pool is having issues now. suggestions ?
    Both Frogabog and I think that the FC will be consumed very fast, so that the little bit that you are above 5.0 will not matter.

    When you put the dichlor into the pool the both the FC and the CYA will be there, the FC faster, the CYA slower. We expect that the CYA will be fully effective in about 24 hours but you cannot count on it showing up on test until a week or sometimes more. That is why we say don't bother to test at first, just use your calculated value.

    So, when you add the first dose of trichlor assuming you use a pound which is enough to get the FC up to 6.4 and CYA to 5.8 from your calcs, in the first hour you will lose most of the FC since the CYA is not fully effective. So that FC will fall pretty fast just due to sunlight and also due to anything organic in the pool. So fast that you do not damage the pool (and it is not like you are going to 10 or 20 ppm at this point, that would be a concern). If you want to be careful, you could add the dichlor in the morning so that sun will do its thing in lowering the FC then wait a few hours and retest FC.

    If FC has dropped pretty low, then add another pound. So if it is 1.0 you add a pound and it is at 7.4 FC, still not terribly high and at this point some amount of the CYA is starting to hold. This will probably get you through the first day. On the next day you can be bolder in your dosing, since you know the CYA is now 11.6 by your calculations.

    Next day, you start at CYA 11.6 and see per the Pool Calculator that you want to shock to FC 10. That is about 2 lbs of dichlor. Now you can do that all at once and then your CYA is calculated to be 23.2. Keep testing FC all day, when it falls to about 5.0, add another pound of dichlor and recalculate everything. With the 5th pound of dichlor CYA calculates to be 29.4 -- STOP.

    You have used the total of 5 lbs of dichlor that you can use before CYA is 30. Now go to bleach to keep at shock levels. At CYA 30 that is shock level of 12 ppm FC. You want to be at or above that OK to go a bit past that but not past 19 ppm which is mustard algae shock level per the Pool Calculator.

    So this is doable, but you see why most of the time we suggest to just buy the stabilizer, get to 30 ppm right away and then start shocking. Just a bit faster and less math involved. You still get to the same place. You see, you can use whatever source of chlorine you want, as long as you know what else it has in it and keep track. Bravo for reading so carefully.
    OK I just added about 10 oz of the shock. My pump is running at about 5(lbs ?) of pressure on 1/2HP...when I jack it up to 1HP it goes to 13.
    Anyhow--my question is...you say I can buy stabilizer to get to 30ppm right away but it says on the pool calculator that it would take a week for the CYA to dissolve fully. Confusing :/
    By "right away" do you mean a week ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Anyhow--my question is...you say I can buy stabilizer to get to 30ppm right away but it says on the pool calculator that it would take a week for the CYA to dissolve fully. Confusing :/
    By "right away" do you mean a week ?
    24 hours after you add stabilizer, assume it is in the pool and use the shock/FC levels based on the calculated CYA level.

    We say 'assume it/CYA is in the pool' because even tho it is in the pool, it usually will not test for up to a week.
    Also, we don't want you to waste reagents trying to test for it too early.

    We also recommend adding CYA via sock method in front of a return.
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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    10oz of dichlor will do nothing to help your pool.

    You need to raise it to shock level. That is 10ppm for 0 CYA.

    You would need 2 pounds 7oz to reach shock level. Where did you get 10oz from?
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Quote Originally Posted by frogabog
    10oz of dichlor will do nothing to help your pool.

    You need to raise it to shock level. That is 10ppm for 0 CYA.

    You would need 2 pounds 7oz to reach shock level. Where did you get 10oz from?
    I put in 10 oz because I did not want to raise the FC past 5 because my CYA was at zero. (I read in the pool calculator section that I should not raise my FC past 5 if my CYA is at zero)
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Dicholor to shock pool ?

    Did you buy the stabilizer or did you decide to work through the math to use the dichlor?

    Either way, it is time to shock that pool. The sooner you start the better.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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