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Thread: Pool too hot

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    Pool too hot

    From a very dissatisfied pool owner.

    My wife and I are ready to get the PB back here with the dirt removal equipment and fill the sucker back in.

    Background.

    We are in the Houston Texas area, Pool built in fall 2008, apx 28,000 gals in ground, SWG

    We are fastidious pool owners. We check chlorine and PH almost daily. We sweep 2-3 times per week.

    We get to use our pool apx 6 weeks every year. Other times it is either too hot or too cold to use. When it is cool, the pool is too cool to use. When it is hot (Texas this year in particular 100 every day) the pool is too hot to use. Current pool temp is 93 in the morning, 97 at night.

    The first year we were able to use the pool gave us some indication of what it was going to be like. The pool was completed after pool season 2008. on Memorial day 2009, it was 80 degrees, a tad too cool for me. On June 12 it was 96 degrees. too hot. Yes whenever we got a rain or a few clouds it would cool down to the low 90's high 80's. Quite comfortable. But aren't you supposed to be able to use the pool to get relief from the heat ? We are now in our third summer.


    We run equipment at night. We have night time temps in the high 70's

    We have a Pebbletec bottom. Yes it is darker than plaster but not a real dark color. We have neighbors/friends with the same color and their pool runs in the low 90's.

    Yes, our pool gets full sun. Which is ironical. We live on 2 heavily wooded acres. I cannot have a garden because there is no place that gets enough sun. But the one spot that does get full sun is where we placed the pool. We thought that was the right thing to do.

    I have tried running a fountain and water features at night but it had little effect. 1 degree. I would try running those during the day but now there is another problem. We are on a well with moderately hard water. Because we have had no rain, I have had to add well water repeatedly. Now the CH is up over 500. We are adding acid to keep PH low (below 7.4) and TA low.

    This is too much work for the amount of use we get.

    Can anyone out there suggest something to cool this pool down ? We love water temps in the 91,92, 92 range. Most people would find that too warm. Unfortunately, We are consistently 96 and 97.

    AS mentioned, we know others with pools that are under similar conditions and their pools run in the low 90's. The only thing that I can think of is different is that our pool equipment sits beside our house in a protected area. There is enough air movement that it does not harm the equipment but I have noticed that the temperature never goes below 85-90 in that area at night due to the equipment running. Is it possible that could be having an effect ?

    I apologize for the Angst but we really are ready to move on if we can only use the pool the limited amount of time that we have in the past 3 years.

    Any recommendations or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Pool too hot

    If fountains, sprayers and waterfalls aren't working well enough, the only thing I can think of is shade, or a chiller. Don't know if shade is practical, or feasible, but chillers work. Unfortunately, you get into the thousands right off the bat. I suppose you could replaster with a lighter color that might help...but how much would that cost? I can't think of an easy answer, but this has been an unusally hot summer up here in Midland too. Dry as well, and I know y'all are too. Hard to believe its dry in Houston..but..that ought to underscore how dry Texas is this year. Maybe you ought to see how it goes next season before making a big move on anything.

    Looks like you are on track with the pH and TA, but you have to keep that up or get scale. Bad news there....

    Sorry it isn't going well, and maybe someone can suggest something better. Welcome to the forum BTW, and keep us updated.
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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Pool too hot

    The evaporative process of running a fountain or spray is undeniable and there are many examples here on the forum of it's effectiveness. You can search "pool cooler" or "evaporation" here and find a way to cool your pool.

    What is the CH and pH of your fill water?
    Dave S.
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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Pool too hot

    Welcome to the forum

    Yep, a pool that is too warm is not refreshing!

    You can google "shade" (bottom left on page) and get more ideas on keeping things cooler.

    Here's one recent link: shade-sails-t33329.html
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  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Pool too hot

    You might want to consider a Heat-Cool heat pump. A Heat-Cool heat pump can heat or cool the water to keep the water temperature exactly where you want it. The Hayward HP3100 HeatPro Heat/Cool heat pump would work. Pentair, Jandy and Rheem/Raypak also make heat/cool models.

    http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/thermalfloDS.pdf

    http://www.raypak.com/heatpumpR401A.htm

    http://www.zodiacpoolsystems.com/Produc ... EE-Ti.aspx

    Heat pump can be air source or ground source. Check with your HVAC or pool people to see which would be best for your needs.

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Pool too hot

    Since it sounds like evaporation isn't cooling your water very much, I suspect you are in a high humidity area. In that case, using a white or reflective pool cover during the day should help prevent the pool from getting hotter during the day, but you'll need to remove it at night or otherwise cool the water via fountains, waterfalls, etc. or a heat pump (run in reverse to cool similar to an air conditioner -- James gave you some models). If you use a cover, then you'll want to shift some of your circulation time from the day to the night and you'll want to avoid running the pump during the hottest part of the day (say, 12 to 4). This is opposite of what is normally done, but if the pool is covered during the day (say, during mid-week if you are not using the pool at that time) then not having the water circulate will help it from heating up as much since the top layer will get hot but the cover will re-radiate heat as well as reflect the sun to prevent further heating. At night, however, you want the water circulating so that it cools off.

    Just so you know, even a white plaster pool of typical average 4-1/2 foot depth (3 to 6 feet) has water absorb around 60% of the sun's energy and converts it to heat. If a pool has darker (even gray) plaster, then the amount absorbed is even higher. What our eyes consider to be a mid-gray actually absorbs 80% of light. So your pool is probably absorbing 90% or more of the sun's energy and converting it to heat.
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  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Pool too hot

    I am in the houston area as well and our pool gets full sun all day as well. I myself feel it is very comfortable vs these 110-115 feel like temps we have been having.

    I am sorry though that you feel you cant use your pool. I get that same feeling in the winter when I cant use it due to it being too cold.
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  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Pool too hot

    Shade is the answer since everything else is not working. Even umbrellas will help some.

    You can plant palms in narrow planting areas, the roots are quite compact. There is an excellent palm nursery south of The Woodlands, on the east side of I-45. Several more on the south side of town.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Pool too hot

    You say you have tried a fountain and a water feature, but what kind of fountain/water feature? There is another thread in the Everything Else forum that describes a home-made cooling fountain using 1/16th inch holes drilled into some PVC. I'm in Houston and I just built and installed two in my pool and they work. It takes a couple of days to see the results, but it lowers the temp by a few degrees and it makes a real difference. You need small streams of water going as high as possible for best results. In full sun my small pool went from the 91-92 range to 88. The recent and unusually low humidity in Houston (due to the drought) may have helped.
    9,200 gal. Gunite Luna Quartz French Grey pool with spill over spa, two fountains on tanning ledge (rarely used)
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  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Pool too hot

    First of all, thanks so much to everyone for their comments and suggestions !!!

    To Brush Pup. daytime humidity is high 30's when it is normally in the 60's. We are beginning to feel like Midland. Heck, the next door neighbor went out and bought a boat yesterday.

    To Duraleigh. The PH of the well water is 7.4, the CH is 175.

    Due to the low humidity this summer I am sure the evaporative process would work but I have been concerned about adding the well water to the pool which has CH of the pool being so high.

    Does running the pool at night really help. We are not seeing it. Seems like maybe the evaporation by running the pool (and Fountain) in that daytime will offset any advantage to running at night.

    Also -I am interested in anyone that might have an idea how much heat is gained, if any, running the pumps and the filter. As mentioned, our equipment is shaded and surrounded by walls and hedges. Even when the temperature at night is 7, say, 77, the temperature measured in the pump area is 90.

    To chem geek. Loved your heat absorption numbers. You don't know how hard I lobbied for a light pool. I lost that one. Ended up with "Tahoe Blue" Pebbletec. It is a very pretty pool. Kind of like look but don't touch. But we know 2 other families that have the same or equivalent in pebblesheen, get almost (that's an estimate) the same amount of sun and their pools run cooler by 5-7 degrees. Again my information is not based on exact science but they refuse to let me camp out at their house 24 hours a day to take my readings.

    To HouTEx. You are running during the day right ? Mine was a 3 day experiment. I rigged the fountain to run off the Polaris pump. I ended up using a hose nozzle I found. I can adjust it to many different patterns. The one I used created an umbrella of water 6 feet high and 8 feet in diameter. I had to center it perfectly to keep it from throwing water out of the pool. Then I had to weight it down with 2 Clorox bottles of sand to keep it from moving. I did only run it at night so I wasn't getting much evap. I just thought there might be some heat exchange between the 95 degree water and 79 degree air. It made almost no dif.

    I have been concerned with the EVAp because I have to re-fill with well water. If evaporation turns out to be the solution though, I will convert to using the returns and PVC as you have suggested. Don't like running the Polaris Pump for this.

    I think some sort of shade structure is going to be next, as some have suggested here.

    When I think of mechanical cooling I wince. We just had to replace a 15 year old heat pump for the house. Yikes ! That chiller would probably work this year with our low humidity but during normal year it might not help much. But then again, in normal years we have clouds and rain and wouldn't need it.

    Again, thanks to all.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    maxepr1's Avatar
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    Re: Pool too hot

    Dmarple, I have been running the cooling towers( Evap) for the last 2 months and couldn't be happier! My equipment is in full sun for about 6-7 hours and my pool has NO shade at all around it. I have drop the pool temperature a solid 9*! As for the evaporation, I have noticed very little difference in water usage than normal. I live in the DFW area and we have had a smoker of a summer! Filter is running 8 hours at night and I installed 2 26" horizontal towers and yesterday it was 84* at 10:30 last night and we hit 108* yesterday here! In fact the ladies of the house are complaining that the water is getting to COLD! My pool is blue/black quartz so it is on the dark side. I deep though at 11' . But I still will get into the mid 90's if the coolers aren't installed. When I tried 1 tower I just couldn't get the same results? Maybe 3-5*s and it would struggle to keep it there. After I put the second one in within 3 days I seeing a huge difference! Humidity is been from 20-45% higher the humidity the less cooling you will get. And you can see it in the morning when filter has been off. I would revisit the towers if I was you! This time make 2 and put them on your returns. I have a friend who has a chiller and is ****** because I am getting better results than him and I don't have a $800 a month electric bill and $3000 chiller driving my meter!
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    Re: Pool too hot

    dmarple,

    Use evaporation and drain and refill from your well. (it'll take much less water than you think) If you drain 50 % of your 500 CH pool water right now and refill with CH 175 well water, your result will be Ch 340 or so...perfectly normal.

    I'm not suggesting 50% all at once....do it in stages.

    I personally believe evaporation is more effective in the daytime when the temp/dewpoint spread is at max.

    I would make an evaporator, run from about 9:00AM until dark and do that everyday. (run it 24/7 if you like) You will see a major difference....usually in just a couple of days.

    The side effect you may see is the need to lower the pH from all the aeration you will be creating.

    It works![attachment=0:3hu3sajw]cooler_spray.jpg[/attachment:3hu3sajw]
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  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Pool too hot

    I've heard of someone thinking of using solar panels in reverse in that they run them at night to dissipate the heat. Need to find a good heat sink I would think and modify the design.
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  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Pool too hot

    dmarple, I have been running it 24/7 for three days now and the water temp this afternoon was 87. The water feels much cooler even though it's only a 4 or 5 degree drop. I have 5 returns in my pool and I installed two PVC coolers. I plugged one of the returns to get a higher stream--it's about 6 1/2 feet high with the one return plugged. I may plug another return for an even higher stream.
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  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Pool too hot

    There is a thread here on DIY pool coolers. This style cooler has many more streams of water than some fountains do. Water loss is not much more than usual.
    If you check out the last post you can see how the cooler has kept the temp on my above ground pool under control this summer. Outside air temperature has more effect on the water temperature than the sunlight does. Also, this type of cooler is fun to play under and the water there is cool.
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Pool too hot

    Just to be clear, evaporation works best during the day since humidity is lower and there is sun exposure while conductive/convective cooling works better at night since the air temperature is lower and there is no sun. So if you had both options you would run evaporators during the day while would run circulation, including that through solar panels, at night. I wasn't proposing doing any evaporation at night.
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  17. Back To Top    #17
    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Pool too hot

    I'd bet real money that a fountain spray in combination with a shade sail could give you dramatic results.
    As for running a fountain at night, you really need it during the day when evaporation rate is highest. It is, after all, evaporative cooling.
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    Re: Pool too hot

    I believe spraying water in the air at any time day/night you are still going to get evaporation. Here in North Texas the humidity is fairly constant, I can only get about half the temperature drop running during the day. For the past 62 days are nighttime temps haven't dropped below the 80's. And our humidity has been between 20-35%. The last 11 days it's been between 21-27%, day and night. I have found that running during the day is not as good as at night.
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  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Pool too hot

    Looking at this graph, the first 4 days were with out the fountain cooler. The water temp is over 90 easily. Then the next days, the cooler was running from about 7:00pm to 6:00am. There is about 5-10 degrees cooling going on there. Now it is probably not much of the evaporation cooling going on there, because I wasn't loosing much water. I think the cooling was just the water spraying through the cooler (70-75 degree) night air. I really don't know exactly how it is getting cooled, I just know that on days 6-8 the outside temp was near 95 in the afternoon and yet the water stayed under 90. Now on days 13 & 14, the day time heat was around 95 again, and the pool temp didn't get much above 85. Those two days the cooler was in use all day and night.

    Blue is the pool temp. Red is the air temp. Yellow is sunshine.

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  20. Back To Top    #20
    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Pool too hot

    Hey dmarple, looks like you got some good suggestions and hope they work for you. Keep us posted and pray for rain!
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