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Thread: First time pump/filter startup..Do I need to BOND it ?

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    First time pump/filter startup..Do I need to BOND it ?

    OK..so I have a S244T filter and 2 speed powerflo matrix pump. I do not have the dedicated electric installed yet so I was just going to plug into the house. (which is a GFCI outlet from what I understand.)
    Do I have to ground the pump or can I just plug it in and turn it on ?
    I have all the hoses hooked up as it is pouring like crazy here and the water is just draining thru the "waste" setting on the filter.
    I opened the plastic cap on the pump and let it fill with water from the skimmer overflow. My plan was to tighten the cap on the pump, and set the filter to filtration and turn it on while plugged into the house outlet. So in short
    Do I need to ground the pump ?
    Does my startup seem right ?

    Thanks guys.
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    You need to back flush the filter on initial start-up to flush out small sand particles or other debris. Check the manual for the correct procedure.
    Glenn - Pickering, Ontario
    Circa 1980 Vinyl In-ground 80,000 Ltrs. ~ K2006 Kit ~ Hayward Pump/Navigator/Sand Filter ~ Raypak 255 Gas Heater

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Does the pump have a three prong cord? Then it's already grounded. Or are you just going to grab some wire nuts and connect things to get it spinning? If that's the case, I'd ground the motor. Grounding didn't become standard just because someone wanted to sell more wire.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Does the pump have a three prong cord? Then it's already grounded. Or are you just going to grab some wire nuts and connect things to get it spinning? If that's the case, I'd ground the motor. Grounding didn't become standard just because someone wanted to sell more wire.
    I hear you. The pump has a standard 3 prong cord. I am going to plug it into the outlet that is on my patio. This is the model I have.
    http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP15922S- ... B00212NNU4
    Does it need any additional grounding or "bonding" ? sorry this is all very very new to me. Im sure once I get this stuff down Ill be fine. Need a little hand holding till then
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    I still don't fully understand the whole concept of bonding, can't help with that part.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Bonding is the process of electrically connecting all the components to each other. This keeps their electric potential equal to each other. Grounding is just that ...the components are attached to a ground rod deep in the earth usually through the panel.
    Glenn - Pickering, Ontario
    Circa 1980 Vinyl In-ground 80,000 Ltrs. ~ K2006 Kit ~ Hayward Pump/Navigator/Sand Filter ~ Raypak 255 Gas Heater

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    ok. Grounding or bonding...do I need to do this to run my pump temporarily until my electric gets installed ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    The lug you see on the outside of the pump is for bonding. Bonding is to keep all metal in within five feet of the pool, the pool water, pool deck and pool equipment at the same equipotential. See NEC 680.26 for more detail.

    What kind of pool do you have? Is it "permanent" as described in the NEC 680.2 excerpt here:
    "Permanently Installed Swimming, Wading, Immersion, and Therapeutic Pools. Those constructed in the ground or par-tially in the ground, and all others capable of holding water in a depth greater than 42 in., and all pools installed inside of a building, regardless of water depth, whether or not served by electrical circuits of any nature."

    If you meet that above description, then most likely you need to bond. This section of the NEC is not real detailed, so different municipalities treat this section differently. You would need to check with yours if you fit that description, but think you are not permanent (i.e. some of the intex hard side pool users feel they are exempt).

    Make sure that is a gfci plug you are using, and hit the test button to make sure it pops.

    Assuming your outlet is appropriate, and appropriately grounded, then you have a ground already through the thrid conductor. You will need to decide for yourself if you need temporarily to bond or not.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    I would bond it if I were you. Even if you just do it temporarly.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/╝hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    I would bond it if I were you. Even if you just do it temporarly.
    Is bonding just running a copper wire from the bottom of the motor to the pool ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Is bonding just running a copper wire from the bottom of the motor to the pool ?
    What kind of pool do you have? If you have an AGP, going for the motor to pool wall is typical (and I think by the old code cycle, all you had to do with an agp?). Depending on how your municipalty views the current NEC rules, any thing else that is metal (ladders,etc.), pool water, and and pool deck (or if you have no deck a buried 8 gauge wire all around the poo) must be bonded.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Yes you should bond your pool before connecting any equipment to a power source. The code requirement exists for your safety

    Jason gave me this advice a few years back, when we put up our AGP

    "each individual metal part, ie every panel, must be connected to a #8 copper bonding wire and that wire must run to where the pump is. If the pump is double insulated the bonding wire is connected to ground, otherwise it is connected to the bonding lug on the pump."
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    "each individual metal part, ie every panel, must be connected to a #8 copper bonding wire and that wire must run to where the pump is. If the pump is double insulated the bonding wire is connected to ground, otherwise it is connected to the bonding lug on the pump."
    I could not find any mention of double insulation, but I did find this in the owners manual:
    "Bond motor to pool structure. Use a solid copper conductor, size or larger. Run wire from
    external bonding lug to reinforcing rod or mesh. Connect a No. 8 AWG (8.4 mm┬▓) solid copper
    bonding wire to the pressure wire connector provided on the motor housing and to all metal parts
    of swimming pool, spa, or hot tub, and to all electrical equipment, metal piping or conduit within
    5 ft. (1.5 m) of inside walls of swimming pool, spa, or hot tub. (In Canada use No. 6 AWG
    bonding wire.) "

    I have this same series of motor (I have the 1 hp 2 speed), and I have it bonded per NEC and the above instructions.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    "each individual metal part, ie every panel, must be connected to a #8 copper bonding wire and that wire must run to where the pump is. If the pump is double insulated the bonding wire is connected to ground, otherwise it is connected to the bonding lug on the pump."
    I could not find any mention of double insulation, but I did find this in the owners manual:
    "Bond motor to pool structure. Use a solid copper conductor, size or larger. Run wire from
    external bonding lug to reinforcing rod or mesh. Connect a No. 8 AWG (8.4 mm┬▓) solid copper
    bonding wire to the pressure wire connector provided on the motor housing and to all metal parts
    of swimming pool, spa, or hot tub, and to all electrical equipment, metal piping or conduit within
    5 ft. (1.5 m) of inside walls of swimming pool, spa, or hot tub. (In Canada use No. 6 AWG
    bonding wire.) "

    I have this same series of motor (I have the 1 hp 2 speed), and I have it bonded per NEC and the above instructions.
    Wow is this turning into a nightmare. I was so focused on getting the right pool and putting chemicals in I had no idea about the whole bonding/grounding thing. I thought I could just plug the pump in temporarily to the outlet of my house until I had an electricain install the outlet outside.
    I have a 21' AGP---its permanent. It is filled with water. Do I have to drain the pool to attach a copper wire to one(or all) of the lugnuts on the wall ? Once I am able to do that I then also have to GROUND the pump with a 8ft picece of metal into the ground ? How am I supposed to know what is 8 feet below my property ? (gas, electirc, etc)...

    My pool has been filled for almost a week and I have not put in one chemical because I cant run the pump. *sigh... Electrician not available until next week. (cant get ahold of trench digger till then)
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    whoa whoa. Grounding is not equal or even a related topic to bonding. Dont confuse the two.

    Bonding is connecting (in a conductive sense) all metal objects within 5' of pool, pool equipment, and metal piping connected to pool. its that simple. Connect a looooong piece of #8 copper to the pool panels, struts, everything on the pool that has a bonding lug, as well as to the motor of the pumps, and any other metal equipment (ladders etc) that are within that 5' radius of the pool. This is strictly to create an equipotential state between all metal objects around the pool. No unexpected shocks or small tingles wen you grab the ladder or touch the pool deck and ladder. It has nothing to do with grounding equipment. DO NOT CONNECT THE PANEL GROUND to the bonding grid. (though the panel ground and bonding grid may be connected electrically due to the ground lug in an electrical panel being connected to the panel housing as well as the bonding lug being connected to the panel.) There is no need to drive an additional grounding rod into the ground, the pol pump will be grounded to the house system which is connected to a grounding rod. If you do this it may create problems, as grounding rods driven into the ground many feet apart may actually be at separate potentials and this would create a small current between them.

    Grounding is taken care of with your 3-prong cord, the house electrical system is grounded to a ground rod already.

    upshot of all this complication, is that they are TWO SEPARATE THINGS, not to be confused or mixed together.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    drop the appropriate amount of chlorine in there and use a pool brush to circulate the water some. you may want to just raise it to shock level and keep it there until the electrical stuff is done.

    Me I would do what you are saying, just plug the pump in and let it go, but I cannot recommend that you do that because its technically unsafe.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    If you need to get the pump going ASAP - get a 12 guage (or 10 guage) grounded extension cord and plug it into a GFCI outlet. Bonding shouldn't be that hard (take that #8 and connect it to each panel and to the motor per Lershac's post) and you should be ok for a temporary installation . I ran a pump like that for 2 weeks until my replacement got in.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    re-reading I wonder if you are confusing the term "reinforcing rod" and grounding rod. Their usage of reinforcing rod means the rebar in a concrete deck, not a grounding rod. They use that as an alternative to mesh, because of the conductive nature of the rebar in a deck can serve the same purpose as the copper mesh that is sometimes used to bond concrete decks that do not have the rebar in it to reinforce it.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lershac
    whoa whoa. Grounding is not equal or even a related topic to bonding. Dont confuse the two.

    Bonding is connecting (in a conductive sense) all metal objects within 5' of pool, pool equipment, and metal piping connected to pool. its that simple. Connect a looooong piece of #8 copper to the pool panels, struts, everything on the pool that has a bonding lug, as well as to the motor of the pumps, and any other metal equipment (ladders etc) that are within that 5' radius of the pool. This is strictly to create an equipotential state between all metal objects around the pool. No unexpected shocks or small tingles wen you grab the ladder or touch the pool deck and ladder. It has nothing to do with grounding equipment. DO NOT CONNECT THE PANEL GROUND to the bonding grid. (though the panel ground and bonding grid may be connected electrically due to the ground lug in an electrical panel being connected to the panel housing as well as the bonding lug being connected to the panel.) There is no need to drive an additional grounding rod into the ground, the pol pump will be grounded to the house system which is connected to a grounding rod. If you do this it may create problems, as grounding rods driven into the ground many feet apart may actually be at separate potentials and this would create a small current between them.

    Grounding is taken care of with your 3-prong cord, the house electrical system is grounded to a ground rod already.

    upshot of all this complication, is that they are TWO SEPARATE THINGS, not to be confused or mixed together.
    OK. so I have the pool all assembled already. I don't see anything that resembles a bonding lug on any of the verticals. I realize the pool installer probably should have put o something on there(I guess) but he didnt. Where exactly can I put this copper wire around the pool being its already assembled and up and filled with water ? Its an all steel pool for the record.
    Do
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: First time pump/filter startup..Do I NEED to ground it ?

    I put a bonding lug onto my pool wall right at the seam on one of the bolts close to the ground. Since you had an installer, maybe you should ask them...they should know your area/local code enforcement, and they should have put a bonding lug on and maybe even run the wire to your equipment location. There may be a lug there behind one of your vertical supports. Figure out where your seam is, and peak behind that support for the lug.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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