New Pool - Cloudy Water

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newbiepool

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Jul 30, 2011
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Richmond VA
Hello, we finally filled in our 16.6 x 32.6 Grecian pool. We are using a Hayward Sand Filter with Hayward Salt System. The pump is a Pentair Variable Speed (the Hayward Super Pump was dead on arrival. So we got the Pentair VSP b/c of immediate availability.. hope I did not make a mistake) We used the fire hydrant to fill the pool. The water was brownish but the kids got in for a couple of hours even though the original pump was bad. Unfortunately while we were backfilling the dirt around the pool we got some dirt in the pool too.

So the question is, how do I get all the silt out? Right now the Hayward Salt System is running super chorination for 24 hours. I see the water coming out of the return as cloudy. Is this normal? I have backwashed and rinsed, and immediately after I still see the cloud coming out of the return.

Any insight appreciated.
 
So the question is, how do I get all the silt out?
Click to expand...
Normally. dirt in the pool is best removed by manually vacuuming. What does your water look like right now. Running the SWG is likely a waste of money. You are going to have to shock the pool manually with liquid chlorine and manually vacuum to get the silt out. Report the physical appearance of the water is the first step and we'll go from there.
 
i turned the SWG off and pump off this morning. the water is cloudy orange.(color of my dirt) i turned the filter to Waste and then turned the pump on so I could vacuum the silt in the bottom. The waterline has fallen low on the skimmer so I have had to stop and fill up the water. Will a wetvac be a better option?
 
I am also in favor of vacuuming the silt on the bottom to waste instead of through the filter. To me, it just seems better to get that stuff ot of the loop the first time. If you are vacuuming with your vacuum hose going in to your skimmer you can ususally continue to vacuum even when the water level goes below the skimmer as long as you are not pulling in air. A lot of this has to do with the design of your skimmer.
 
Yes the pool guy added salt... 3500PPM. .. this morning it was at 2700 PPM. I added to 40lbs in it about 2hours ago... staggered an hour apart. The reading is now 2800 rpm. The vacuum through waste is great... problem is you have about 20 minutes before you run out of water and you have to wait another 2+ hours to top up. I went to pool supply store and bought "sock" filters. They look modified hosiery.i wrapped it on the skimmer basket (2 of them) and them wrapped 3 at the end of the vacuum (part that goes into skimmer) and it got alot of the silt out. That plus back wash got most of it out. Now the rest is just really fine (i think is silt orangy in color... not like the brown stuff from the fire hydrant). I'm waiting for hopefully some settling to vacuum again. I was told that there is a chemical called drop and vac. Takes about 24 hours and will cause everything to sync and then can vacuum... has anyone heard of it. Does it work?
 
When you vacuum to waste, you are also vacuuming out your salt. Forget salt levels while doing so and while the SWG is off. Add salt once you get ready to re-start the SWG.

Now, with that said I think we should start with some basics. Start with pool school (white button atop right this page) and read it all more than once, if not ten times.

The dirt that is in your pool has organic matter in it. It is not sterile and has likely consumed more chlorine than the SWG can produce. Chlorine is consumed by organics and sunlight, so first we need to know what your chlorine level is plus combine chlorine. What do you test with? A FAS-DPD test is what you'll need, and your most valuable tool for your pool.

If you don't have a test kit, you can take your pool water to a pool store for a free test. The results are not reported to be accurate but it will work to get you started. Do NOT buy anything they recommend. Smile and say you already have whatever they try to sell you. Your pool needs none of those expensive products.

Go to walmart and buy plain unscented 6% bleach. In the laundry aisle. Get about 6 jugs for now. You are going to chlorinate with liquid chlorine for a while because the SWG can't handle what needs to be done to your pool, so it gets to nap.

I have a feeling you're going to need to shock the pool, but test results will help determine that. Do you know your CYA level? Knowing this is essential to figuring out how much chlorine your pool will need for the next few days till you turn the SWG back on.

You've got a couple things going on right now that are messing with normal operations. Solids (dirt), and little or no chlorine. Yes, get the solids/organics out but you have got to chlorinate in the meantime. The solids will either fall to the bottom or be swept into your filter and caught eventually. Sand filters take longer to clear particulates, adding DE to the filter sometimes is recommended. 1 cup, replaced after backwashing. The solids will fall all on their own, don't add anything to the pool other than chlorine right now. Do not buy that product, there's little to no chance that you need it.

Next, even if you don't need to shock the pool (you very most certainly likely do...) with the SWG off you must chlorinate manually. Use bleach, and the pool calculator http://poolcalculator.com.

Onto shocking. Pretty sure you're going to need to do this so plan on it. Maybe get 10 bottles of bleach instead of 6.

Read the shocking information in pool school. Follow it, disregard the SWG till you're pool is done with the process, clear and ready.

Then add salt to the level needed, let it dissolve and start up the SWG. When you're done it will chlorinate just fine, you just have too much for it to handle right now plus we don't know how it was started up either. Proper SWG startup requires a day minimum of manual chlorination, this may or may not have been done.

Did I mention getting your own test kit? :~}
 
Last night i vacuumed the pool and most if not all the solids at the bottom were gone. This morning the water was cloudy! The pool installer put in the flocculant this morning.... in a matter of a couple of hours I started to see considerable clear up and dirt settling... this stuff is powerful! i did take the water to get tested, just like you said, don't add anything else until I vacuum the rest of this debris out now that the floc has been put in.

My PH was 6.8
Chlorine was at 1
Free Chlorine 0.9
Optimizer 6
Akalinity 62
Total Hardiness 64
TDS 4650 (what is TDS??)

He did give me stabilizer, akalinity raiser and calcium hardiness to add, only after tomorrow to give the floc a chance to work now that it is in the pool.
 

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Raise ph sooner than later. Aim for 7.2-7.3 for the time being.

Did they tell you what optimizer is?

No CYA level? (CYA is stabilizer)

I wouldn't raise the alkalinity just yet nor the calcium. But you do need chlorine. 3ppm should be your goal without stabilizer. Use the pool calculator to determine how much bleach you need to add to get to 3ppm right now. Assume most of your remaining chlorine is now gone as well, so dose from 0 to 3ppm. Do not let the pool go overnight without chlorine. You have purchased some bleach, correct?

If your CYA is 0, you need to make sure the chlorine never falls below 1ppm. You can add stabilizer right away, add enough to get to about 40ppm to start (you'll need to raise it a bit higher before restarting the SWG still but for now, just add 40ppm). Add it to a sock and hang in front of the return or off the ladder. Squish the sock frequently till it's all gone. What brand stabilizer did he give you? Put it in tonight.

Once the stabilizer is in you can assume it's in there and use the minimum/maximum chlorine levels for 40ppm CYA (3/7). Till you restart the SWG, test at night and raise it back to 7ppm for the next day.

When you're ready to re-start the SWG, add the salt needed and start the SWG when chlorine is above 3ppm. This is also a good time to add the rest of the CYA in to reach 70-80ppm for the SWG. Let the FC fall to normal for the SWG (70ppm CYA=3ppm FC or 80ppm CYA=4ppm FC).
 
I have not had a chance to port my events for the last day or so.. I have been vacuuming... vacuuming and then vacuuming. The floc has worked really well and the water is now crystal clear. I put 1/2 gallon of stablizer in this morning and 1/2 a gallon tonight. Hopefully this will be a good start in keeping the chlorine in the pool. The pool supply store where I got my water tested asked me to bring in another sample of water now that things have cleared up. Will report back what I find out. Thanks for all the tips so far.
 
Just got back in testing the water hopefully this makes sense to someone, the pool store said I am fine and should wait a couple more weeks and test again.

Saturation Index -0.5
TDS 3400
Total Chlorine 3.1
Free Chlorine 2.7
PH 7.3 (he said this will rise in time)
Akalinity 92
Total Hardiness 131
Salt 2480 (He said to put more in)
optimizer 7 ( he said this is hard to test, there is obviously some in there else it wouldn't hold chlorine. i put a gallon of this in my pool already 16K Gallon pool)

Thoughts anyone?
 
newbiepool said:
Thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...
As Frog mentioned, and I strongly agree, you need to get your own good test kit (see link in my sig). Once you get your own kit, you probably will not have to go into a pool store again (I have only gone in once, and not for chemicals).

How are you adding chlorine into the pool right now? Is the swg still off?

What volume is your pool? When I estimated it at 17000 gallons, pool calculator told me 1 gallon of liquid stabilizer would bring your pool to 20 ppm (still very low). Generally, you want CYA to be at 70-80 for a swg. See link: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/water_balance_saltwater_generator

For now (and probably forever) ignore Saturation Index and TDS. They will not help you with your pool. Do you know what the "optimizer" is?

Get a test kit :whip: since you plan on using the swg (eventually) get some salt test strips too. http://tftestkits.net is a great one stop shop!

Until then use 20 ppm for your cya level in the poolcalculator and keep your FC level between 2 and 5 ppm using bleach or liquid chlorine, unless your pool is cloudy, then check my sig for shocking link. Read/reread pool school.
 
newbiepool said:
Just got back in testing the water hopefully this makes sense to someone, the pool store said I am fine and should wait a couple more weeks and test again.

These numbers are way too precise, two weeks till you test for CC again? Not a chance.

Saturation Index -0.5
TDS 3400
Total Chlorine 3.1
Free Chlorine 2.7
This shows less than .5ppm CC yes, but it also shows .4ppm CC which is dangerously close to .5ppm which means you need to shock. Not being able to test on your own to verify .4ppm CC and the fact that the precise testing they do is often in error would scream "must shock" to me.
PH 7.3 (he said this will rise in time)
Maybe... Maybe not. You'll have to test it sooner than 2 weeks to know.
Akalinity 92
Total Hardiness 131
Salt 2480 (He said to put more in)
Use the pool calculator to determine how much salt to add. "More" is a fairly ambiguous term.
optimizer 7 ( he said this is hard to test, there is obviously some in there else it wouldn't hold chlorine. i put a gallon of this in my pool already 16K Gallon pool)
1 gallon liquid stabilizer would have raised CYA in your pool to 23ppm. The pool store value of 9ppm is very suspect if you haven't drained and refilled or vacuumed to waste over 60% of your pool water since adding the stabilizer.

If you added a gallon, call it 23 and move on. You do need more stabilizer, it should be 70-80ppm for a SWG pool. You need three more gallons minimum (three plus a few cups of another to reach 70). Liquid stabilizer is more expensive than solid. It will take just over 6 pounds of solid stabilizer to do the job for your pool. HTH brand at walmart is very soluble, and comes in a 4 pound container. Two of those will do the job nicely.

Once you add CYA to 70ppm, remember that your chlorine level should be no less than 3ppm with the SWG. High is 5ppm. Also, your SWG will not have to work nearly as hard as it is now maintaining 1-2ppm, your cell will last longer.

Thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

Last thought... Have you considered your own test kit?
 
The SWG has been creating the Chlorine. Yes i need to get the test kit. Being so new and so much left on the construction I have been running ragged. Volume of my pool is roughly 16K gallons. The Optimizer is suppose to be the Stabilizer, that was the stuff he called Stabilizer when I asked for it.
I will go to a different pool store today to get the water tested for a 2nd opinion. Yes I will order the kit this week :) The Hayward Turbo cell reports back how much salt is in the water, is that sufficient or do I need to by salt tester?
 
Thank You frogabog. I will get some more stabilzer today. I have never ever added stablizer other than that 1 gallon. We filled the pool last friday and have been sturggling with mud and silt.... now that the water is crystal clear I am now focusing on the chemicals. When you say

"This shows less than .5ppm CC yes, but it also shows .4ppm CC which is dangerously close to .5ppm which means you need to shock. Not being able to test on your own to verify .4ppm CC and the fact that the precise testing they do is often in error would scream "must shock" to me."

Are you referring to my free chlorine, where it is now at 2.7 and needs to be at 3.0?
 
No, not really. The difference between FC and TC is combined chlorine (CC).

Read in Pool School about the ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry for information about combined chlorine. Very important. It's the indicator of your pool's health, over .5ppm of CC means something is actively consuming chlorine and the pool needs to be shocked.

Read Pool School for information about how to shock your pool.
 
forgabog - thanks! i get it now. Is it a possibility I do not have enough stabilizer which is causing me to lose chlorine rather than have to shock? I could run super chlorinate on the system.. dealer said that is equivalent to shock.
 

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