Pool-light won't turn on --- HELP!!

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Man... failure.

Quick story -- went to Lowe's, they had nothing that was the same size as Bryant (newer name is Cuttler-Hammer). Closest place that had one was 35 mins away... so I took the drive and got the exact replacement. BUT ---

Nothing's working thus far. I followed everything in the diagram other then all white wires go to the neutral bar (in separate 'holes' for lack of a better term), and the black wire from the new breaker doesn't have as many wire-nuts (there are some wire nuts in the diagram without anything else to attach to them.

Here's the odd thing. At no point did the GF trip, but I noticed the 'test' button did nothing when attached to almost anything.

Example: If I attach all wires according to plan, the GF breaker stays on, but the test button doesn't trip the mechanism.

If I take everything off, and just have the black wire going into the breaker, but not attached to any load -- then the GF will trip when I hit 'test'.

If I attach just the BLUE wire from the PLW01 to the breaker's black wire... then the GF will trip when I hit 'test'. (maybe this has something to do with that backwards wiring from the previous installation?)

If I attach just the BLACK wire from the PLW01 to the breaker's black wire... then the GF will NOT trip when I hit 'test'.

Ditto down the line -- I even tried skipping past the PLW01, and going straight from the breaker's black wire to the light's yellow wire (as it pops into the panel box) -- but same thing, the 'test' button does nothing. I also tried just adding the PA011, but that caused the 'test' button do nothing as well.

What the heck is going on??

Note: At no point did I get anything to 'power on' whether the light or the socket.
 
Another note ---

It seems like I'm missing something... the GF Breaker has a 'load neutral' and a 'line neutral'. The pig-tail thing being the line neutral. I need to add a white wire for more neutral (I tried, but more failure).

Maybe this is the root of the current problem though?

I think this article mentions it -- my head is spinning from the ridiculous day I've just had. Once the 11 mo. old goes to sleep, I'll try to think this out again.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4780973_wire-gf ... eaker.html
 
Yeah, I drew up the schematic before knowing there was a neutral bus bar. In any event, the only changes in the schematic would be to run the coiled neutral from the GFCI breaker to the neutral bar (this is connected to the white supply wire, right?), and to pigtail the rest of the neutral wires to the neutral terminal on the GFCI breaker. Make sure you do not mix up the load terminal with the neutral terminal on the GFCI. The black wire should go to the load terminal and the white wire to the neutral terminal. All the ground and black wires should be the same.

At this point, we still do not know if either X10 device is functional. As for the PLW01, its manual says there should be two wires, black and blue. Is this correct? It also says the black is the line and the blue is the load, so we can assume for now this is true. Disconnect the blue wire from its wire nut, and after energizing the panel, do a voltage test (using a neon tester or meter set to AC in the 120-250V range) between the blue wire and the neutral bus. Make sure the tab below the pushbutton on the PLW01 is not pushed in, as this will remove the load from the switch. If you push the main button, you should hear a relay switch on, and this should show 120V between blue and the neutral bar. If not, try switching the blue as the line wire (e.g. connected to the black wires that are connected to the GFCI load terminal). Repeat the test with the voltage tester

The receptacle should operate independently of the PLW01, so you can also test this by plugging in an appliance (e.g. small lamp, etc) or, better, a receptacle tester with ground. The one I have can test for polarity and grounding issues, and also has a switch to induce a ground fault, and these are less than around $10 and very useful. Test both receptacles on the outside outlet. One of these is switched by X10 signals, and the other is always connected to the line.

If neither of the outlets work and the switch also fails, you need to check that there is power coming out of the breaker. Usually, breakers snap in pretty easily, but you must make certain that the breaker itself is seated properly on the power bus, so de-energize the panel at the main panel, reseat the breaker, and test voltage between the load and neutral terminals on the breaker. If you see 120V here, you know the breaker is seated properly. You should also be able to push the reset button and see that this pops the breaker. If the breaker is functioning properly but neither the switch or the outlet receptacles are working, then you should double check your wiring. At this point, most likely there is a problem in either one or both.

X10 stuff is not terribly robust, and I wouldn't be surprised if one or both are dead. Replacing the outlet will be trivial, but you may have to cut the front of the panel to switch out the PLW01 for a standard 120V light switch. A standard (not Decora style) would probably be easiest to fit through the hole on the panel for the existing pushbutton.

I hope this makes sense.
 
A couple of things to add:

1. Be careful about randomly touching wires to the breaker, etc. You may inadvertently fry something, and this can be dangerous.

2. Based on your description of the issue, it sounds as though the CGFC breaker is probably energized properly, it just needs the neutrals from the receptacle and the switch (PLW01) to connect to the GFCI's neutral terminal, and not from the neutral bar. I have no idea why connecting one black wire to the PLW01 prevented it from resetting.

3. After rewiring with the coiled white wire from the GFCI to the neutral bar and the neutrals from the PLW01 and the receptacle tied into the GFCI's neutral terminal, you should first test the receptacle (the outlet that is not labeled "Controlled"). When the panel is energized, this uncontrolled outlet should work just fine. Then move on to the switch.

At some point, you should probably also replace the 2P 20A circuit breaker with a 2P 20A GFCI breaker, as the pump should also have this protection. I would suggest checking the web, as you will likely find cheaper sources for GFCI protected breakers. But, as you have found, they are more expensive than the standard ones.

If you cannot get this to work as I've described, I would suggest calling in an electrician. This is a pretty simple fix and would likely not cost that much to have someone come out to fix. You already purchased the GFCI breaker, so they won't need to bill you for that.
 
A small success! The side outlet now works.

The only problem now is, when I connect the BLUE wire from the PLW01 to the YELLOW wire of the pool light... things shut down. The GFCI doesn't trip on its own... but once those two wires are connected, it won't 'test'. I remove those wires from each other, and the side outlet will work and the breaker will 'test' fine.

Any ideas? Maybe if I switch out the Dang PLW01 with a normal light switch, as you suggested, that will help the process. The only other thing I can think of is if the stupid PLW01 is wired incorrectly inside (hence the backwards original wiring job), and I would need to attach the PLW's BLUE wire to the Breaker's BLACK. And the PLW's BLACK wire to the pool light's YELLOW.

Pic coming as soon as I can upload it...

progresss.jpg
 
Okay, great! So we now know that the GFCI breaker is functioning. Let's try to bypass the PLW01 to see if your light circuit is working. Switch off the 15A breaker and connect the yellow wire directly to the black. You did already connect the lighting circuit in the PLJB the way I recommended, right? Now, after switching the 15A breaker on, does it pop the circuit? Do you see the light in the pool come on? If this doesn't pop the circuit, but also fails to illuminate the light, you could have a problem with the light circuit, either the bulb is dead, or a cable is not connected properly in the conduit.

Do this test and get back to me. I'll be monitoring this post all day.

Cheers...

Craig
 
Tried it... no go. :(

GF doesn't trip or anything... but same situation, just won't Test.

Question -- the PLJB is pretty gnarly looking (coated in green -- there's a pic of it about halfway down the first page). I wonder if the grounds aren't connecting properly?

Does the pool light's ground have to connect to that PLJB? Couldn't I just connect the green ground from the pool light, to the other green ground wire that goes up to the panel and into the ground bar (aka, just connect the two instead of having them screwed into separate areas of the PLJB)
 
Hmm. It sounds like you might have an open circuit in the light. If you have a VOM, you could check this (e.g. check continuity or resistance between the yellow and white wire in the panel and do the same in the PLJB. Yes, you could connect the green wires up with a wire nut in the PLJB to ground the light fixture. Typically, PLJB's will have a screw to connect to the equipotential bonding grid that surrounds the pool and deck. I'm not sure in your case if there is a bonding wire there or not. In any event, even if there is some corrosion, you probably are getting ground. GFCI's actually don't measure the ground, they look for slight differences in current between the load and neutral wires (on the order of about 5 milliamps!). This is why you don't connect the GFCI breaker to the ground, but instead that curly white wire connects to the neutral bar to use it as a reference.

Unfortunately, I think your pool light is burned out. You should confirm this with a VOM as suggested. Changing light bulbs isn't so bad, but you will need a new bulb (of course) and a new gasket so that water doesn't enter the fixture.
 

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Also regarding the PLJB, you can unscrew the ground wires, use steel wool to clean the terminals and the screws, and all should be fine. I guess it must be made of brass?

BTW, you might want to just get rid of the PLW01 and replace it with a standard 120V light switch. Use the standard kind (non-Decora), and use a drill bit or Rotozip with metal bit to enlarge the hole on the panel cover, which will likely be needed to get the panel to fit. The switch will have two terminals, line and load. So run the line to your black wires pigtailed off the 15A breaker to the line terminal, and run the yellow light wire to the load terminal. It appears that the PLW01 is connected to the panel with long brass offsets, so you should be able to use those to hold the new switch in place. Once you have it wired, you should be able to detect 120V between the load terminal and the neutral bar. Also, most light switches will have a grounding terminal, so you can run a green wire to that and the ground terminal (this is probably not necessary, since the panel box itself should be grounded, but best to be safe).
 
son of a *****!! I've been had!

Previous owner was supposed to replace lightbulb and gasket due to the light obviously been half-filled with water.

It looked like this had been done (no more water in light fixture) so I didn't push the issue once I saw the pool's electrical panel. Figured I'd want that fixed either by my own electricians or myself.

Well -- At your suggestion, I just jumped in to check the light. THERE IS NO ******* BULB!! MF'ers!!!!
(in my defense, the glass covering the light is dark blue, so you can't easily see inside)

Do you think the Breaker can 'tell' that there's no light bulb in the fixture, and that's what the problem is?
 
It's cheap --- 120v 500w incandescent type that Leslie's has for $17. I should have one by 4:30p or so and try this again.

You think that's what's messing up the GFCI breaker? The bulb itself was completely gone, nothing in there at all.

ADDED:

Hopefully I can restrain from kicking my innocent cat between now and when the pool light gets here. ;)
 
Cool! I was worried it would be one of those expensive LED lights. If so, you would be looking at about $500 to replace! BTW, make sure you get a new gasket when you go down to Leslies. Bring your existing gasket with you, and try to identify the model of the fixture. A bad gasket was probably the reason the original fixture leaked water, probably leading to the light blowing up. Is it an Amerilite fixture, BTW?

I'm not familiar with that brand of GFCI breaker. Ours are GE and I've not encountered issues with the breaker not tripping when pressing on the test button.
 
BTW... Just did another test...

If I wire the PLW's blue wire to the light's yellow wire.... and then down in the PLJB, disconnect the light's yellow and black wires (breaking the power chain to the light)... the GFCI will 'test'.

That seems to take the PLW out of the equation as a problem, I think
 
Okay, that looks like a standard Amerlite fixture. My Pentair SAm lights use the same design for the fixture more or less. Leslies will have a gasket for that fixture. I would suggest handling the bulb with gloves to minimized getting oils on the bulb.

BTW, can you fit a standard light bulb in the fixture, or is the twist on light receptacle larger than standard? If it is standard size, then put a 60W light bulb in there while on the pool deck so you can do your testing before having to put the unit back into the pool. We want to make sure that fixture works before you use that gasket. You don't want to test it out of water with the 500W bulb, as it only takes a few seconds out of the water for those lights to blow, apparently. Again, a meter would come in handy here because you could energize the circuit at the panel and test for 120V at the light receptacle. But if a standard light does fit, then connect the yellow to the black wires in the panel, switch on the 15A breaker and see if the light turns on. If it does, then you know that the pool light fixture is working. With that fixture, make sure to carefully reassemble it with a new gasket surrounding the lens, then put the lens and gasket on the fixture and place the face ring on and put the circular clamp on, making sure it fits inside each of the tensioners that hang down from the face ring. I prefer to do this while the lens is pointing up. Getting the circular clamp on is a bit tricky, but once is this is the case, make sure to put the washers on each side of the screw, add the nut, and then screw this down as tight as possible. In our case, this usually means that the two "loops" on the clamp (that the screw goes through) are butted up next to each other. Also be careful to make sure that the lens gasket is even, so that the o-ring is pressing against the fixture flange with the same pressure. You should see that the lens is even with the fixture.

I'm still curious about that PLW01 to see if it still works. It could be that black and blue are reversed on this model. In the original picture, it appears that the blue wire was connected to the line side and the black was connected to the yellow wire. So you might try that and see if you can get it to work.

You are making progress! :goodjob:
 
Looking at the picture from before, the yellow wire was connected to the black wire coming out of the PLW01 via a plastic crimp connector, and the blue one is hanging free. Was that blue one connected to the load side of the GFCI receptacle in originally? In any event, this would suggest that the blue wire should be connected to the black wire nut you have in there, and the black wire on the PLW01 should be connected to the yellow light wire. (This would be opposite of what's shown in the PLW01 manual, but who knows!).

Try pushing the tab below the pushbutton. When it is pushed in, it should block the switch from energizing the lighting circuit. But, if it is pulled out, the switch should work. If the tab is pulled out and you push the button, you should be able to switch on the light circuit.

I want to see this work!
 
Ok... so I tried it out with a 100w/120v light...

The light won't come on... but the GFCI now trips when I hit the power button on the PLW. So we're a step closer, lol... at least its letting us get to the part where it trips itself.

The PLW --- the bottom button doesn't budge.. It feels like its still attached to the body of the switch, like it never became a button, if that makes any sense.

I tried wiring for blue/black being incorrectly installed as well... same result.

And yeah... that PLW's black wire definitely went to the light's yellow wire. Man... I need to get a normal light switch too... this PLW is a mystery wrapped in an enigma --- and I DON'T NEED THAT Darn RIGHT NOW!!!! :evil:
 

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