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Thread: Help me size a pump.

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Help me size a pump.

    Every time I read and think I know something .... I read a little more and find out I dont know anything.

    So ... .figured I would ask those who know and go from there.

    I am going to put in a 20x40 sport bottomed pool .... I figure it to be around 27000 gallons. Was thinking of a spill over spa but considering our winter temps I have abandoned that idea. I would like a small waterfall and the kids would like a slide.

    My electric rates are in the .08$ range.

    Seems with rates that low the general consensus is that a 2 speed pump is a better choice than a VS pump.

    Here is what I think I know .... I want a quiet pump. I want 2 color logic lights. I want a cartridge filter. I want a SWG. Will likely put in a heat pump (no gas here).

    So ... guide me?

    Would like to stick with a single brand for as many components as possible. Hayward or Pentair.
    19600 gallon 18x36 IG vinyl liner over full length steel steps. 4'x8' sun ledge. Sport bottom 3.5-6.5'.
    Hayward equipment including SP3200 VSP, Pro Logic, T-15, S210S sand filter, 140k Heat Pump and Colorlogic light.
    Under track auto cover.

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    SW Georgia
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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    My Hayward is about to die and I am thinking about switching to a Pentair because I heard it is quieter.
    35K IG Vinyl 20 x 40 self built pool, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter 31" 98gal/min, Hayward TriStar 1.85hp, Hayward 400btu heater, BBB method w/Hypo, Jazz light w/matching fiber optic rope lighting around coping w/syncronized color wheels. Concrete Paver deck.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by swilk
    Seems with rates that low the general consensus is that a 2 speed pump is a better choice than a VS pump.
    For older pools, that is usually true. But I would seriously consider a VS for a new pool. Given that you will have a waterfall and a slide, a VS will allow you to optimize flow rate depending on what you have running. Plus the cost difference is small compared to the cost of building a pool.



    Quote Originally Posted by jasonknox
    My Hayward is about to die and I am thinking about switching to a Pentair because I heard it is quieter.
    Pump noise has more to do with the age the pump (i.e. bearing noise), the size of plumbing and the size of the pump than the manufacture. Both Haywards and Pentair use AO Smith/Century brand motors so the motor noise should be about the same. The wet end design has some influence on noise but that is usually dictated by the size of pump and the flow rate. Also, any two speed will be much quieter on low speed than high speed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    ok ... so that brings me back to the Hayward Ecostar or the Pentair Intelliflo pump.

    Is an automation system even remotely worth it with a proposed system like this? I guess it would give me push button management of the slide, water fall and lights. Anything else?
    19600 gallon 18x36 IG vinyl liner over full length steel steps. 4'x8' sun ledge. Sport bottom 3.5-6.5'.
    Hayward equipment including SP3200 VSP, Pro Logic, T-15, S210S sand filter, 140k Heat Pump and Colorlogic light.
    Under track auto cover.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    An automation system will also allow you to control pump run times, landscape lighting and any else you would want to control with a timer. Also, if you ever go with solar or an SWG, some controllers can handle both as well including changing pumps speeds with solar. Mine was definitely worth it.

    If you go with one manufacture for everything, you will probably get a better deal and an extended warranty. I would price out both Hayward and Pentair to see what kind of deals they can offer you.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    I am set on a SWG .....

    I was reading about the Hayward Ecommand 4 and it seems to be a relatively economical system that would do much of what I would need done.
    19600 gallon 18x36 IG vinyl liner over full length steel steps. 4'x8' sun ledge. Sport bottom 3.5-6.5'.
    Hayward equipment including SP3200 VSP, Pro Logic, T-15, S210S sand filter, 140k Heat Pump and Colorlogic light.
    Under track auto cover.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    The Hayward Ecommand 4 does not have a built in SWG but it does interface to the Aquarite. If you want an all in one, Hayward ProLogic or AquaPlus is a better choice.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    Ok .... how about this:

    2 skimmers with individual 2" pipes back to the equipment pad. A double drain tied into a single 2" pipe back to the pad.

    Those three 2" pipes tie into a single 2" pipe going into a Hayward echostar VS pump.

    Out of the pump 2" pipe going into a hayward swimclear 4025 filter.

    Out of the filter with 2" pipe going to a hayward heat pump with manual bypass using 3 jandy 2 way valves.

    Out of the heater 2" pipe to a hayward turbo cell SWG (not sure if 25k or 40k size would be correct)

    out of the turbo cell 2" pipe to a jandy 3 way valve controlled by a actuator. One way leads to the pool returns and the other way leads to the waterfall/slide/deck jet returns.

    Thoughts on the above?

    My thoughts on pool returns is something like this: 4 high returns, one located on each wall close to a corner pointing down the wall closest to it. Should create a counterclockwise rotation across the pool. Two low returns one each in the center of the long walls pointing to the deepest part of the pool.

    How would a person go about plumbing them in? Individual pipes for each run? Two individual 2" pipes going to the pool and forming a loop with 1.5" pipes breaking off and going to the individual returns?

    Back to the slide/waterfall/jets feed from the other side of that 3 way jandy ..... how to plumb them? Would like to be able to isolate the slide from the waterfall/jets as easily as possible for my wife. A second 3 way jandy/actuator with one leg going to the slide and the second leg going to the fall/jets?

    I assume a single 1.5" feed line going directly to the slide with a ball valve to fine tune flow?

    I assume two individual feeds, each with a ball valve, one going to the 4 deck jets and one going to the waterfall.

    The waterfall is simple enough with a single feed going directly to the fall.

    The jets .... a single 2" pipe leading a loop around the pool. The loop is 1.5" pipe. Coming off the loop going to each jet with 3/4" pipe making the lengths of pipe to each jet equal.

    I should be able to choose an automation system that would control the actuator controlled jandy valves to give me pool only, slide only or water feature only control .... and any combination of the 3.

    Thoughts, ideas, corrections?

    Please forgive all my questions ... trying to take a crash course in this stuff.
    19600 gallon 18x36 IG vinyl liner over full length steel steps. 4'x8' sun ledge. Sport bottom 3.5-6.5'.
    Hayward equipment including SP3200 VSP, Pro Logic, T-15, S210S sand filter, 140k Heat Pump and Colorlogic light.
    Under track auto cover.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help me size a pump.

    My thoughts on pool returns is something like this: 4 high returns, one located on each wall close to a corner pointing down the wall closest to it. Should create a counterclockwise rotation across the pool. Two low returns one each in the center of the long walls pointing to the deepest part of the pool.

    How would a person go about plumbing them in? Individual pipes for each run? Two individual 2" pipes going to the pool and forming a loop with 1.5" pipes breaking off and going to the individual returns?
    With so many returns, you may want to have some fine tune control. At least split the upper and lower returns so that you can always force more water to the surface if the skimmers aren't working so well.

    For the lowers, take a single pipe half way between the two returns and tee them.

    For the uppers, again half way between the four, spit, then half way between each two then split.

    If you can keep the number fittings and pipe length about the same to each return, you won't need a loop.

    Everything else sounds fine.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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