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Thread: Stubborn Milky White Water

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    Stubborn Milky White Water

    I have a Hayward in line chlorinator which has given me a unique problem twice this year. It is set at 4 on the dial , a little less than half for flow rate, and delivers a nice consistent 2.0 to 2.5 chlorine rate. However, occasionally the water will dissolve the 3 inch tabs in the bottom and the tabs in the top of the chlorinator will jam in the cylinder. This leaves me with the proper flow of water going through the chlorinator but no tablets sitting in that water - which leads to my issue.

    (Note during all of this issue CH has been rock steady at 240, no phosphates have been in water, CYA constant 40 and no metal contamination in water)

    This problem of "jamming" occurred and I essentially went chlorine free for about three days in 90+ degree weather. The PH went to 6.8 with TA at 80 and no chlorine in a milky white pool. Seven pounds of Soda ash were dissolved in a bucket and broadcast into the pool. The chlorinator was "unjammed" and 4 pounds of Leslie's Power Powder schock added through the skimmers. The filter was regularly bumped and after 12 hours clarifier added to the pool. New results - PH 7.6 TA 130 FC 3.0 CC 2.0 Still milky white.

    The next day all DE washed out of filter and new DE added. Flo-Rate improved through filter. 4 gallons of liquid shock added (to free up filter clogging) and filter run constantly. New results - PH7.4 TA 140 FC 5.0 CC 2.0 Still milky white.

    After 24 hours from liquid shocking Pool First Aid added per directions 28 ounces. Filter run over night - slightly better on water clarity at best. PH 7.4 TA 140 FC 3.0 CC 2.0 Four more gallons of liquid chlorine added - flow rate on filter deteriorating, bumping every hour. Clarity has improved from 12 inches to maybe 24 inches.

    Obviously this issue started with a loss of sanitation, but why the stubborn lingering problem? In 21 years of owning this pool I have never been cloudy for more than a day or day and a half till now. Your thoughts and suggestions please.
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    What's your CYA? If you customarily use trichlor, it's probably very high. The active chlorine concentration is then very low, requiring massive quantities to do anything at all.
    20k gallon IGP
    Plaster over gunite
    3/4 hp Hayward pump
    Purex Triton DE filter
    TF100 test kit w/ speedstir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    What's the CYA level? I bet it's real high, since your pool has been fed a steady diet of pucks.

    And if it's high, you need real high FC to get ahead of the algae. Sounds like you're at a stalemate. You kill algae about as fast as it grows, and the cloudiness is algae carcasses.

    As an aside, shock is a process, not a product, and it's a lengthy process, not a one-time deal.

    Pool School has some articles on water chemistry and shocking. Start there.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    CYA has been a constant 40 throughout - my charts show I should need a to achieve a FC of 16 which 4 gallons of liquid should achieve (2.475 gallons per 10 ppm increase).
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    How in the world are you keeping a constant CYA while using pucks continuously? Do you drain water every week or something? Where does that number come from?
    20k gallon IGP
    Plaster over gunite
    3/4 hp Hayward pump
    Purex Triton DE filter
    TF100 test kit w/ speedstir

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    I have been using this chlorinator with 3 inch tablets for about nine years. My CYA levels have historically been very static, both per my Taylor test kit (new reagents annually) and my local Leslie's Pool store results. Typically my CYA will slowly deteriorate over a period of two to three years from 50 to 30 and I will have to add some conditioner to get CYA levels back up. It has always seemed to me that I was simply replacing the CYA lost through splash out and normal use. I have never had the 3 inch tabs I use (Leslie's) have an effect on CYA levels that I can measure. If it helps I live in Cincinnati with relatively soft public water and not a blistering hot summer. Of all the levels I track CYA has been the most benign with adjustments required seldom if ever. Do some manufacturers put CYA in with their 3 inch tabs? Your comments and others seem to indicate a strong tie between "pucks" and CYA level something I have never heard before.
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Trichlor contains CYA, and normal tabs are trichlor. The ones Leslie's sells around here are specifically trichlor. Something definitely does not add up.

    What are the actual ingredients on those tabs?
    20k gallon IGP
    Plaster over gunite
    3/4 hp Hayward pump
    Purex Triton DE filter
    TF100 test kit w/ speedstir

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Sorry about the delay - I had to call home and have some one read it off to me. Ingredients: Trichlor-S-triazinetrione 99% Other Ingredients 1%
    I will make sure and double check my CYA reading tonight when I get home from work. I do not know the model number but I use the Taylor test kit that is sold with 12 color capped reagents - three yellow for chlorine, three red for PH, three green for TA, three blue for CH and white capped reagents for CYA levels. I replace all of my reagents annually and periodically check my numbers against my pool store as a cross check. I have been surfing and everywhere I go seems to indicate the strong link between CYA and pucks. I have never had an issue with it which seems beyond coincidence. I do have to add Soda Ash fairly regularly which I always understood to be caused by the pucks I used. All of this is odd indeed, all though learning is a good thing. Thanks for your time to teach an old dog.
    Due to the continually rising cost of chlorine it was my plan to switch to a Salt Generator next year. If you are allowed to recommend a model within forum rules for my 28,000 in ground pool please due so.
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Hi, Paul,

    Easily, you may be one of our luckiest members!!

    All pucks (for pools) are made identically and yours contain 6 parts CYA for every 10 parts of chlorine. As a result, pools that use only pucks becoming overstabilize (too much CYA) is, by far, the single biggest water issue we have here on the forum.

    Normal splashout and refills and rain account for some reduction but typically not enough. We hope you'll tell us more about your pool usage to give us some clues as to why you are not over stabilized.

    How consistent is your pH?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Paul, we got really sidetracked by the pucks and have ignored your original post. Sorry.

    The only thing I see in your post I don't like is the addition of too much store bought products. I don't know what is in them (Cal Hypo will cloud a pool under certain conditions) but I suspect they have caused/contributed greatly to your cloudiness. Plain ole' liquid chlorine (Clorox) is your friend until your water clears. My thinking is filtration will start to handle it but I would suggest using nothing but Clorox until you are squared away.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    I want to add that in looking through the OP's test results it appears that the CC is remaining constant at 2ppm for all tests.

    Additionally, I would point out that the test you're using will not test above 5ppm normally, so while shocking you don't know what the level is. For 40ppm CYA you will need to shock at 15ppm, and maintain that till you see <.5ppm CC, pass the OCLT, and the water is clear. From the looks of your test results, none of this has occurred yet and this means you are not done shocking.

    This is why your water is not clear. When you complete the shocking process (it is a process, not a one time event consisting of throwing shock product in and walking away) the water will be clear but since you haven't actually shocked you're looking at some dead algae floating around that is also actively re-growing. Algae has more lives to live than a cat... and unless completely killed will come back to life every time.

    I suggest you read pool school (upper right of this page, white button) and pay particular attention to the shocking information within and begin shocking your pool right away.

    You can easily add the FAS-DPD test to your kit which will allow you to test above 5ppm and give you clear CC results every time. It's sometimes difficult to judge the color change with the R-0001 and R-0002 reagents. Having used both kinds, I would never want to be limited by the DPD only test again. http://tftestkits.net offers a FAS-DPD only kit that is exactly what you need to complete the kit you have. I believe it's $26, and worth every penny I assure you.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Thanks frogabog for your thoughts. I have always looked at shocking as a one time event - obviously its my day to learn. I will get the test kit tonight and maintain that 15.00 ppm till I have nuked the little %&*# and get an acceptable CC.

    Thanks to everyone,

    Paul
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    The End of the Story -

    Went home and checked CYA and found it to be 30. Cross checked with neighbor's reagents and took a sample to my local pool store. Still 30 CYA. Added enough conditioner to get to 40, backwashed DE filter and added 8 gallons of chlorine (12%). New numbers FC 18 CC 0 PH 7.4 TA 140

    Checked this morning and added my last two gallons of chlorine. New numbers FC 20 CC 0 PH 7.4 TA 140

    I can now see the bottom of the shallow end. Victory is on the horizon.

    Thanks for everyone's help.

    Paul
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Nice work, Paul. Enjoy that sparkling pool!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Quote Originally Posted by pauljahn
    The chlorinator was "unjammed" and 4 pounds of Leslie's Power Powder schock added through the skimmers.
    pauljahn,

    Power Powder schock is cal-hypo which should never be mixed (dry) with trichlor. since the chlorinator is located after the filter, i guess you would never get any granules of cal-hypo in the chlorinator, but i'm wondering if it's still safe?
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: Stubborn Milky White Water

    Diver -

    I have been using the Power Powder for years applied through the skimmer without issues. I would say it is safe from an experience viewpoint as opposed to a chemists viewpoint. My only complaint is the toll power powder puts on filtration flow through. That toll is exacted at a time when you are usually dealing with a problem that requires maximum filtering capability. I will often in those times use liquid chlorine for shock. The down side to the liquid chlorine is it doesn't seem to maintain the shock level for any significant amount of time, while the power powder slowly dissolving in the filter keeps the chlorine high for a longer period of time.

    Pick your poison I suppose.

    Paul
    IG 29,000 Gallons EC75-Perflex De Filter
    265,000 BTU Copper Heat Exchange Heater, Hayward Puck Chlorinator, Converting to Hayward SWG, Polaris 9300, Pentair Intelliflo VS

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