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Thread: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

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    Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    For those of you that have probably seen everything...

    I plan to replace our 2HP Pentair WhisperFlo pump with a Pentair IntelliFlo VS (11018) in the near future. Checking out the equipment pad, I note a problem of not having enough PVC pipe between the existing pump and various connections on the suction side of the pump. Immediately in front of the pump's intake is a check valve, and before that are two Jandy valves, on that controls suction between the spa and main pool, and the second that controls pool side suction between the skimmer and the cleaner line. Unfortunately, the 3-way Jandy valve that controls suction between the pool and spa side abuts the check valve. There is about 1-1 1/2 inches of PVC between the check valve and the inlet of the WhisperFlo. I'll try to get a picture of it if I can figure out how to post it.

    I would really like to replace both the check valve and the pump, but not disturb the rest of the plumbing on the suction side. I could just cut the line after the check valve, add a PVC connector and run more 2" PVC. I have to set the new pump back a bit since otherwise the lines to and from the gas heater will prevent access to the control panel on the IntelliFlo, so adding some new PVC plus the twist on connectors will help to scoot the pump back enough for this. But, I'd really like to replace that check valve. Is there some way that I could cut the existing check valve out and add a new check valve without having to completely replace all the plumbing (and two Jandy valves) in front of the pump? Are there solvents one could use to take apart the joint between the PVC and check valve, since at present, the check valve just butts up against on of the Jandy valves?

    It's quite frustrating the way they plumbed this!
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    You'll never get a solvent welded PVC joint apart. The best you can do is cut it and get a fitting that goes inside the piece of 2" pipe still inside the valve. I forget what they're called but someone here will know.
    25k gal Lazy-L, vinyl liner, poly walls, swimout spa, diving board, TurboTwister slide.
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Post a pic and some of the guys have some very interesting Jedi plumbing tricks that will amaze you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorDIYer
    You'll never get a solvent welded PVC joint apart. The best you can do is cut it and get a fitting that goes inside the piece of 2" pipe still inside the valve. I forget what they're called but someone here will know.
    Those are nipples. Not even sure if I can say that here. (guess I can)
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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    They do make a bit"Pasco 3244 2" ram bit"that will remove pipe material from fitting. Used them alot in slab work when i was a plumber, try it on a scrap piece to get the hang of it. Around $30 or so. Picture would be helpful for a trouble shoot.
    12X24 Oval AGP +/- 7100 gal
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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    They do make a bit"Pasco 3244 2" ram bit"that will remove pipe material from fitting. Used them alot in slab work when i was a plumber, try it on a scrap piece to get the hang of it. Around $30 or so. Picture would be helpful for a trouble shoot.
    Hey, that looks pretty interesting. I wonder how well it would work without introducing any air leaks on the suction side of things. I'll try to post a picture of the current vacuum "manifold" so that you all can get an idea of what I'm facing. Thanks for all the replies so far!
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    [attachment=1:20yu9fb3]PoolPlumbing1.jpg[/attachment:20yu9fb3]Okay, here are some pictures of the plumbing issue. I need to clean off the equipment, but you should be able to see the problem. The top Jandy valve controls suction from the pool vs. spa side. The Jandy valve below that controls suction between skimmer and autocleaner suction. Behind the top Jandy valve is the main filter pump (WhisperFlo). I want to replace the pump and the check valve.



    Here's another view showing the vacuum side manifold:[attachment=0:20yu9fb3]PoolPlumbing2.jpg[/attachment:20yu9fb3]

    On the left is the vacuum side of the waterfall pump. On the right is the vacuum manifold for the filter pump. Here, you can see just how the plumbed the check valve right next to the top Jandy valve. There is space to cut after the check valve, but I'd like to replace it. Also, the pump itself will need to be pushed back away from the manifold so that its control panel is not blocked by the heater input and outlet pipes.

    Any thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Check valves and suction side plumbing, at least by my rules are mutually exclusive. It should go on the pump exhaust. I also recommend using one with a replaceable flapper.

    For the pool pump, get a 2-1/2" coupling to fit over the port at the Neverlube port facing the pump. Pop a reducer bushing in and you're in business. I would also recommend a flush union be set in there.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Ditto what Scott said. Just cut the check valve off right at the 3-way and a 2½" coupling will go right over the cuff on the 3-way.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Ah interesting. I guess that should have been obvious from the Neverlube valve below controlling the cleaner line vs. the skimmer. That appears to be plumbed in with a 2" coupling on the outside of that Jandy valve port. I'm assuming then that this valve must be a 1 1/2" x 2" version, and the one on the top controlling pool vs. spa must be a 2" x 2 1/2" version. I guess that all makes sense. So I will need a 2 1/2" coupling and then a reducer bushing to go from 2 1/2" to 2" schedule 40 PVC, right? That's great because otherwise I would have probably had to redo the entire suction manifold, and those Neverlube valves are fine.

    As can also be seen, both the main pump and the waterfall pump use check valves on the suction side. I believe this was done to prevent water from returning back to the pool when the pump basket lid is removed for cleaning. What is the logic in putting the check valve on the pressure side of the pump?

    Thanks for all of your help! This greatly simplifies the installation of the new pump!
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    I'm assuming then that this valve must be a 1 1/2" x 2" version, and the one on the top controlling pool vs. spa must be a 2" x 2 1/2" version.

    So I will need a 2 1/2" coupling and then a reducer bushing to go from 2 1/2" to 2" schedule 40 PVC, right?
    That's correct.

    What is the logic in putting the check valve on the pressure side of the pump?
    The main reason is because the pump basket will filter the larger debris and there will be less chance of debris interfering with the check valve closing and making a secure seal. I recommend the Jandy Check valve.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    The Jandy valve in front of the pool pump is a 2" inside and 2.5" outside unit. Not the 1.5/2" you mentioned.

    The old plumbing pic tells me the techs that did the cutting didn't have a clue. unless the valves or attached fittings had freeze cracks, in which case the repair bill should be on who closed the pool.

    If the valve bodies were not cracked, the peeps that cut them should have just gotten new guts. Eight screws in, old guts out, clean any crud out, put the new guts, and screw the eight screws back snug. Might take 10 minutes with a powered screw driver.

    Scott

    Added: The valves can do that. The check on the exhaust side would help keep prime and keep DE in the filter, if it were a DE filter.
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Replacing pump, but not enough PVC plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    The Jandy valve in front of the pool pump is a 2" inside and 2.5" outside unit. Not the 1.5/2" you mentioned.
    No, I meant the second 3-way valve below it. The valve on top does indeed appear to be a 2 by 2.5" one.


    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuyNJ
    The old plumbing pic tells me the techs that did the cutting didn't have a clue. unless the valves or attached fittings had freeze cracks, in which case the repair bill should be on who closed the pool.

    If the valve bodies were not cracked, the peeps that cut them should have just gotten new guts. Eight screws in, old guts out, clean any crud out, put the new guts, and screw the eight screws back snug. Might take 10 minutes with a powered screw driver.

    Scott

    Added: The valves can do that. The check on the exhaust side would help keep prime and keep DE in the filter, if it were a DE filter.
    Scott, I don't think those were freeze cracks. It rarely/never freezes in this part of Southern California, and the pool stays open all year long. I agree that the folks who did the plumbing before made some strange choices. Good point about fixing the valves by replacing the internals. They seem to work fine at this point, and they will be fitted with electric actuators once I set up the EasyTouch system. But, first up will be the new Pentair 11018 IntelliFlo.

    Thanks for your help! You guys are just incredibly knowledgeable here. I really appreciate it.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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