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Thread: Help to choose SWG

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    Help to choose SWG

    Just found this forum a few days ago and can't seem to get any work done any more!

    I have a 30K in-ground plaster pool. I live in Austin, Texas where we have seen 104+ for the last 5 days straight. I am not able to keep enough chlorine in the pool. It's a constant battle. I am looking for an automated system.

    Here are my specs:

    30,000 gallon
    Titan 48 sq ft DE filter
    Hayward 1.5 HP single speed pump
    Direct sun on over 70% of the pool all day
    current water temp is 89
    PH 7.4
    I have a Pentair in-line tablet chlorinator, the valve is open to max setting of 5 and the feed tube is "top-feed". It uses about 4-5 tablets per week. I have also been putting 1-2 3" tablets in both skimmers.
    In spite of that, Chlorine is .7 unless I am constantly shocking or adding liquid 6% clorox.

    The local pool store tells me that the heat is just winning the battle.

    I have considered the Liquidator but am starting to think that what I really want is a SWG.

    There are a lot to choose from. What brand is preferred these days?

    I will definitely be inclined to go overkill and get the highest capacity since I can't seem to keep up with my pool.

    All input is greatly appreciated and please let me know if you need more details about my situation.

    -Respectfully,
    Steve
    Austin, TX
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    An swg is a good choice. Another option would be an injection system. I don't recommend Liquidators for pools above 25,000 gallons.

    Since you asked about an swcg, any of the major mgf's units would be fine. Go about 1½ times the size of your pool when sizing one.

    The Intellichlor is highly thought of, and a new comer is Compupool. We don't have a lot of history with those units but all the reviews so far have been good.

    And while you didn't ask. Your problem with keeping FC in the pool is most likely NOT from the heat. It's most likely from something growing in here and you're adding just enough chlorine to keep it at bay but not enough to kill it completely. Most likely due to your CYA being high from overuse of tablets.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Welcome Steve

    Any chance you can post a full set of test results? Although a SWG may make life easier, I'm thinking you want to rule out organics or other chemistry issues as a possible cause.

    I would rate getting a good test kit ( pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison ) as more important than worrying about chlorine automation. Once you confirm the chemistry is in check and you can pass the overnight FC loss test, then you can focus on automating chlorine delivery

    Here is the info that you can confirm with a good test kit and visual inspection:

    What does your water look like? Cloudy? Green? Crystal? Murky?
    FC = x
    CC = x
    pH = x
    TA = x
    CH= x
    CYA = x
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Water is clear. I have to brush some small patches of algae on a daily basis. I just shocked my pool to 10 ppm with clorox about 10 days ago.

    I just drained 2/3rds of my pool about 2 months ago to lower the CYA.

    Here is the most recent test done by Warehouse Pool back on 7/9/2011: ( I will take sample in today for a new one )

    FC = 1.0
    CC = 1.0
    pH = 7.4
    TA = 75
    CH= 175
    CYA = 60

    Here are my test results this morning: (I added one bottle "182oz" of 6% clorox about 2 hours ago

    FC = 2.0
    CC = 2.0
    PH = 7.3
    TA = 80

    Temp: 89 degrees
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    If you're having to brush off algae every day then there's where your chlorine is going.

    You really need to get yourself a good test kit so you can manage your pool correctly. Link in sig.

    First thing you need to do is shock your pool correctly. Shocking is a process that you have to maintain until you've killed everything in the pool. It's not a product you toss in the pool a time or two.

    With a CYA of 60 your FC should never be allowed to go below 5. Use more bleach to get it there.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Okay. I just donated to become a TFP Lifetime supporter. I will order the TF100 kit as soon as I receive a link to the discount. I will start shocking the **** out of the pool until the organics submit! I understand that shocking is 10 ppm, correct?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    For a CYA of 60 ppm your shock level will be 24 ppm. You need to test and add to bring it back there every hour in the begining. You should also read the Pool School article on "How to shock your pool".
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Yeah, I just read that article. 24 ppm? Yikes, that requires 11 gallons of Bleach! How much do you think I will have to add to keep it at that level for the required amount of time? I will have to take the truck to Costco to restock before I even start

    Would I be cheaper or better to get the higher concentration stuff from a pool supply? Or where do you recommend I get the good stuff?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Some places sell 10% bleach 2.5 gal for about $4 bucks. (Leslies, Pinch a Penny and Ace hardware) in my area. That might be cheaper depends on what you get your bleach for.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Steve follow the good advice on this forum and you will soon have a trouble free pool.

    I am also a Steve with a 30,000 gallon pool in Texas. We installed a SWG last summer and have kissed our cloudy water and water balance problems goodbye. If you read the pool school, learn the BBB method, learn to conduct the overnight chlorine test, use the pool calculator, and learn to test with the TF-100 test kit you will have the pool you always wanted.

    With a CYA level of 60 your shock level is 24. See: pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock That means dumping in sufficient bleach to raise AND keep the FC at 24 until you pass the overnight Cl test. Read: pool-school/shocking_your_pool If a pool store told you that your CYA is 60 then the proper value is probably anything but 60. You need to conduct your own CYA test.

    Many pool owners do no raise their FC level high enough and allow algae to continue to grow in their pool After you have killed the algae you DO NOT have to shock the pool on a routine basis. The standard instruction given by pool stores is dead wrong.

    “The local pool store tells me that the heat is just winning the battle.” Hopefully this is the last time you listen to their wrong advice. My pool is in full sun most of the day and you know it has been 98+ everyday for weeks. We just return from vacation to a crystal clear pool that had proper water chemistry. Once you learn how to properly test your water and maintain the water in balance you can go on vacation and not return to a pool with algae.

    “current water temp is 89” My SWG says our water temperature is 90.

    “Would I be cheaper or better to get the higher concentration stuff from a pool supply?” Pool stores in my area do not carry liquid Cl. Lowe's carries 12% liquid Cl. I find bleach to be cheaper.

    “Or where do you recommend I get the good stuff?” We purchase our bleach at Walmart or SAMS Club. Sometimes HEB or other grocery stores sell bleach at a discount. Make sure that the bleach is 6%.

    First get your water in balance and kill the algae. Then we can discuss a SWG.
    30,000 gallon gunite in-ground with a spillover spa, Diving board and water slide
    Hayward 1 HP Super II filter pump, Hayward 24 " Sand Filter Pro Series using zeolite media
    Polaris 380 cleaner with ¾ HP booster pump, Hayward Heatmaster pool heater, AutoPilot DIG-220 Power Supply SC-60 cell
    Testing with the TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    It's hard to say how much chlorine you're going to need but if they don't look at you funny when you check out, you didn't get enough! Seriously, it takes a lot when you have to shock. Sometimes the Pool Store stuff is cheaper and it's definitely less to tote.

    Now that you're a contributor, PM Jason for a discount code for the TF-100 test kit.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Jason, sent me the discount info and I just placed my order for test kit. I also got the super cool magnetic stirrer! Yeah, I'm excited about that.

    I will get a test done at Warehouse Pool and go off of those test to get started unless you think I should wait the week it will take to get the test kit...
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    When you have algae the rule is to hit it hard with bleach ASAP.

    Do not wait a week. Algae will continue to multiple. The sooner you kill the algae the less total bleach you have to use.

    Watch how the pool store tests for CYA. If they over estimate the CYA your shock process will work but maintaining a FC level will be more difficult. If the pool store underestimates the CYA level then 24 ppm of FC may not be high enough to kill the algae.
    30,000 gallon gunite in-ground with a spillover spa, Diving board and water slide
    Hayward 1 HP Super II filter pump, Hayward 24 " Sand Filter Pro Series using zeolite media
    Polaris 380 cleaner with ¾ HP booster pump, Hayward Heatmaster pool heater, AutoPilot DIG-220 Power Supply SC-60 cell
    Testing with the TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Here is my latest test from Warehouse Pool:

    FC: 6.0
    CC: 0.0
    PH: 7.4
    CH: 180
    TA: 70
    CYA: 80 (I asked him about this and he said because my chlorine level was so high, he might call it a 70 instead)

    Phosphate level: 500 !! argh

    I asked him about the 6.0 ppm chlorine when I only got 2.00 this morning about 2 hours after I added 182 oz of 6% bleach. His answer was that the pool may have not turned over earlier and that's why it is higher now. I just came home and tested again at the house and I get the same as this morning. I hope I can trust their CYA test.
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    Don't worry about phosphate levels. Phosphate is tested so that they can sell you phosphate reducer. If you eliminate all phosphate you can still have algae. I do not know why a FC level of 6 would affect the CYA test.
    30,000 gallon gunite in-ground with a spillover spa, Diving board and water slide
    Hayward 1 HP Super II filter pump, Hayward 24 " Sand Filter Pro Series using zeolite media
    Polaris 380 cleaner with ¾ HP booster pump, Hayward Heatmaster pool heater, AutoPilot DIG-220 Power Supply SC-60 cell
    Testing with the TF-100 Test Kit

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    Help to choose SWG

    I began the shock process and it's tough with a crappy test kit that is only designed to test to 5ppm FC! I did order TF100 on Thursday but I have no idea when it will arrive.

    I *think* my FC is around 25 and shows no sign of falling for two days now. I sure wish I could swim

    Should I work to lower my CYA now that I've subscribed to BBB?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    I'd wait till you get the TF-100 and see what the CYA is according to it before I adjusted it. You may find that it's either higher or lower than you think.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    If my CYA is 70 or 80 then what is my FC threshold for "unsafe to swim"?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Help to choose SWG

    At 70 CYA normal CL levels are 4-8ppm. Most say it is OK to swim at shock levels which would be 16ppm for a 70 cya level. I personally would not go in over 12ppm but that is just me.

    Go to poolcalculater.com and plug in your pool numbers, this is a great tool.
    20x40 24,000 gal IG plaster/CircuPool RJ45 SWG/2 skimmer/2sp 2.5hp Jandy Stealth/340sq ft cart filter/600sqftHeliocol Solar Panels/6ft semi circlr tanning ledge/25ft deep end bench/5ft sheer descent/2 lion head water features/1300sqft travertine paver/2 Colorlogic lights/Hayward Navigator/3step 2ft raised bond beam

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    Re: Help to choose SWG

    JCJR, thanks but I read the CYA chart differently and I thought it states that shock levels for 70-80 CYA is 28-31. Am I misreading this at pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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