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Thread: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

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    3 most efficent pump for me questions

    This really stinks when I am on 2 weeks vacation but can't sleep like a normal person as I'm so used to being up till 8am working. Guess I might as well use the time productively. I have a few pump questions that I am sure the experts here can (probably already have) answered. I have searched and found many threads relating to efficent inground pumps but not AGP pumps.

    1) When figuring how long a newer more efficent pump will take to pay for itself are you using the actual rate per KWH or are you taking the total bill and dividing it by the KWHs? In my case the charge for the energy itself is .07092 but dividing the total bill by usage comes out to .12626.

    2) I think I have read here by the very nature an equivalent HP AGP pump is more efficent than the same HP IGP pump. Is that true and on the same line I have seen a 1/2 hp inground but the lowest AG I've seen is 3/4. Would the AG pump still be cheaper to operate?

    3) Considering my current pool has about 12400 gallons and the upgraded pool will be somewhere between 18,400 and 21,200 gallons, what would be the most cost efficent per gallons moved pump I should get?

    Thank you, even though I guess that was techically 4 questions.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Have you looked at Mark's (Mas984) pump spreadsheet?

    1) You should use the actual cost of power and taxes. You're going to pay the base rate anyway so you're just adding a load.

    2) The reason that AGP pumps are more efficient is that they are normally flooded suction and the equipment is closer to the pool, therefore they have lower heads.

    3) Is it going to be a IGP or an AGP? Are there going to be any water features? We need to know that before we can recommend a pump.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Above ground or sunk 2-3' and no pool features planned

    Edited to add maybe I should plan on a solar panel or 2
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    If you're planning to go to 21k gallons then I'd suggest the Pentair Dynamo 1hp 2-speed. But really, any of the 1 hp or less 2-speed pumps will be about the same efficiency. You can get a high efficency pumps and they'll be a little better but at your power cost it won't make much difference.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Quote Originally Posted by UPSguy
    Above ground or sunk 2-3' and no pool features planned
    If the pump will be installed above the water level, then I would stick with an IG pump to avoid any priming issues. Some AG pumps can prime with a slight elevation but you would need to check with the manufacture to be sure.

    A few IG choices:

    Hayward SuperPump SP2607X102S
    Pentair SuperFlo SF-N2-3/4A
    Whisperflo WFDS-3 or -24 (would recommend 2" pipe with this pump)

    The biggest factors for energy use are not the pump brand or model but the size of the pump and if it can run at lower the speed. Going with the smallest two speeds available (above) will pretty much guarentee high efficiency.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    I'm 95% sure the pump will be below the water line. There is about 10-12" of slope and the pump will be on the low side.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    If you're planning to go to 21k gallons then I'd suggest the Pentair Dynamo 1hp 2-speed. But really, any of the 1 hp or less 2-speed pumps will be about the same efficiency. You can get a high efficency pumps and they'll be a little better but at your power cost it won't make much difference.
    How does one tell by looking at the various manufactuers websites which are the high efficency pumps if they don't spell it out in big bold letters?
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    All the mfg's will list their high efficient models as such. It's a marketing thing and they're not going to miss an opportunity.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    When looking at the various manufacturers websites how can one tell if the pump is an up-rated or full-rated pump? Is there such a thing as an "EE" AG pump?

    Mark, I appreciate your IG recommendations but if I won't need an IG pump, what is your recommended AG pump?

    Thanks to all that have answered, I appreciate it.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    I like the Dynamo as well.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Am I calculating correctly here. Looking at the specs of a hayward 1/2 powerflow pump (1/2 hp super pump shows the same) it is listed as .37kw. So if I ran that 24 hours a day it would use .37x24x60x.12626=$33.64 a month to run the pump? I would have used the Pentair in an example but I can't find the kw listed anywhere for it.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    If the .37 kw is on the nameplate then that is the output power rating of the motor similar to HP but in watts (1/2 HP * 0.745 = 0.37kw). The input power required by the motor is depedent on the efficiency but worst case would be the max amps * volts.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Max amps is 11 at 115 volts. In practice I am sure it is well below 11*115w, and I also suspect it is well above 0.37 kw.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Darn, I thought I was starting to get it. Thank you very much for your patience in answering my questions.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    OK I am ready to spend some cash so I better make this last change to the above. If I want to add a solar panel or two is the 1hp 2sd AGP pump still sufficent?

    Thanks all.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Which pump did you settle on and how high are you planning to install the panels? In general, mosts AGP pumps do not have enough head to prime panels that are elevated but some will depending on the height of the panels. If the panels are on the ground, then it shouldn't matter.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Which pump did you settle on and how high are you planning to install the panels? In general, mosts AGP pumps do not have enough head to prime panels that are elevated but some will depending on the height of the panels. If the panels are on the ground, then it shouldn't matter.
    my thought was the panels would be resting on the fence. I haven't decided which pump yet but if a 1hp 2 sp is enough (there is a 3/4hp2sp dynamo too) that sure narrows the options. In the Pentair line what is the difference between the dynamo and optiflow? The one difference I see is the dynamo's ability to raise water.
    The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.

    24' x 52" Intex ultra frame pool (12,400 gallons) with seperate Intex 2500gph pump and SWG and 2 Intex magnetic pool lights.
    Looking to upgrade to 27-30' semi inground install

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 3 most efficent pump for me questions

    The head curves are fairly similar so I wouldn't expect too much performance difference.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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