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Thread: Right-size pump & filter

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Right-size pump & filter

    As many of you know, I have a pump and filter that are large for the size of my pool. (I, in my ignorance, and wanting a clean pool, asked for it, thinking bigger was better) They seem to work fine, but I'm thinking of reconfiguring one of my pipe runs and started to wonder -- in a perfect world, what would the setup look like?

    Now, I have tried to calculate flow rates, turnovers, head pressure, etc. The math is beyond me.

    Could one of you pro's help me figure out what I have, and if I could do it over, what I should have?

    Here's what I can tell you:
    AGP 12' round, 52" deep. Around 3800 gal.
    Pump: Waterway supreme hi-flo 1.5hp Single speed.
    Filter: 175 lb sand filter w/ zeo
    Everything is plumbed with 1.5" hard PVC.
    Tag on the filter says it's rated to 50lbs pressure. Pressure gauge usually reads 13-15.

    As I said, pool usually looks pretty good. I keep the lid on when I'm not swimming, to keep the dust out, and run the pump 4-6 hrs. a day.

    If you need other info, I'll do my best to help, but that's what I can give you based on the equipment labels.

    Thanks,
    Renee
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    About the only downside to your setup is energy use and the pump is probably a little too big for the filter. A sand filter is somewhat forgiving of high flow rates so it is probably ok. Is there something that is not working as it should?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    No, everything's good. Mostly I want to make sure it's not so horribly wrong that something will wear out faster than it should, or something like that. And knowing what I know now from reading the forum, I just wonder what the ideal would look like. I tried figuring it out by myself in Pool School and failed.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Depending on the size of your sand filter probably a 2-speed 3/4 hp pump would be a good fit for your pool. You could run it on low all the time.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Thanks, Bama. That's what I wanted to know. Not that I'm going to do anything about it immediately, but still, good to know. The filter is a 175 lb. Not sure how that translates into "sizes".
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    With a 175 lb filter I stand by my recommendation.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Bama, regarding a 3/4 hp pump, are they available in 2-speed? I haven't seen any--can you recommend a name?

    ah, never mind--I found one.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Hey, Bama, I'm back. Still browsing around for 3/4 hp pumps and there are so few 2-speeds, I have to wonder why? They're wicked expensive, too. Would a single speed 3/4 hp be adequate, or still suck too much power? We spend .43 per kWh, so I'd like to find the most power miserly pump I can and still have a clean pool.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    At that rate I wouldn't even consider a single speed pump. You're a good candidate for a variable speed pump. At those electric rates a VS pump will be a good investment. The next best thing would be a 1 hp 2-speed. They should be a little easier to find than a 3/4 hp 2-speed.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Here are a few 3/4 HP Full rated and 1 HP Up rated, same size, pumps to consider. They are in order of efficiency from high to lower and THP lower to higher, yes there is a reason for that.

    Hayward SuperPump 1 HP Uprated SP2607X102S
    Pentair SuperFlo 3/4 HP Full Rated SF-N2-3/4A
    Sta-Rite SuperMax 3/4 HP Full Rated PHK2RAY6D-101L
    Pentair Whisperflo 3/4 HP Full Rated WFDS-3
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP Up Rated WFDS-24

    These are all proven pumps and I would not hesitate to buy any of them.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    I double-checked my electric rates, and found that the residential rates are somewhat lower than the commercial rates I quoted, at around .35 per kwh. Still higher than many places in the USA.

    Nonetheless, I'm looking into replacing my pump sooner than I would have otherwise, for the energy savings.

    I need some help discerning the differences between the Intelliflo variable speed and the Whisperflow dual-speed 1 hp. Keep in mind that 1) my pool is small and above ground 2) no automation, timers, sensors, etc. 3) one skimmer/one return/no bottom drain 4) manual vac. I like it that way; it suits our situation.

    Is the extra cost of the Intelliflo because of the automation features? or does it provide significant energy savings over the Whisperflow 2-speed?

    Sorry to be such a dope, but I'm having real trouble comparing apples to apples and still getting what I need in a pump.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    aaagh

    Well, to complicate things even further, I'm told that anything 2 speed has to be hardwired. That ain't going to happen, because of the location of our pool and the cost of getting an electrician out here. Should I just go to a .75 hp single speed and be done with it?
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    I am no pro by any means having some of the same questions and thinking the same thing (wiring for 2 speed etc...). Instead of running all day with a low speed just run 4hrs at high speed then i can run it at night to cool the water. There are some pretty cheap timers out there you can get for the pump especially if your just running a regular plug on the pump. Something to consider if warm water is any issue for you... Good luck!!!
    24k in-ground Fiberglass Pool, Easy Touch Automated Timer, IntelliChlor Salt Generator, Sand Filter, 1.5HP pump, Aqua Cover, Diving Board, Slide

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Hi, George,
    With a 1.5 hp single speed and my tiny pool, I currently run my pump about 4 hrs daily, manual start/stop depending on conditions and bather load. I'm told that a more efficient pump would be cheaper to run, even with longer turnover times.

    But combining cost of 1) more expensive pump, plus 2) high shipping cost, plus 3) electrician, may just negate any cost savings. Certainly raises the hassle factor.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    It doesn't sound right that a two speed pump has to be hard wired. A variable speed pump would. I replaced a single speed 1.5 hp for a dual 1 hp and saw a big drop in my bill. I for get my marginal rate but I think Tier 3 is around .27/kWh and Tier 4 is .35/kWh

    I'd at least double check.
    Garden Leisure Voyager 12x24 AGP, 7500 Gallons, Hayward Power Flo Matrix 1 HP pump, dual speed, Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter, 120 GPM,

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Not exactly sure what you mean by hard wired but if you mean it needs a controller, then no, the pump does not need a controller. A two speed pump can usually be bought with a special backplate that has a switch in it so you can manually switch speeds. You can also use a two speed timer that is a lot cheaper than a full on controller.

    An Intelliflo VF doesn't need a controller since it has one built in but it does cost $1200 plus install.

    As for size, again, the smallest most efficient pump is the way to go. I would consider either of these pumps first:

    Hayward SuperPump 1 HP Uprated SP2607X102S
    Pentair SuperFlo 3/4 HP Full Rated SF-N2-3/4A
    Sta-Rite SuperMax 3/4 HP Full Rated PHK2RAY6D-101L

    The Whisperflo is a good pump but it will probably be a bit to large for your pool. Even the smallest Whisperflo has a lot of power.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Mark, by "hard wired" I mean a pump that you can't just plug into an electrical outlet, but that requires an electrician to wire it directly into the household electrical supply.

    All the pumps you mention are (as I understand it) for in-ground pools.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

  18. Back To Top    #18
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Yes that is because two speed AG pumps are hard to come by. The only one I know of is the Pentair Dynamo and I think that comes with a cord.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    I have a two speed 1hp AGP pump - Hayward Power Flo Matrix. You can get it on Amazon for just under $300. Other sites had it cheaper but shipping evened it out or I was concerned about the reputation of the vendor. Yes, it has a cord with 3 prong plug. Switch on back of pump is three positions: high, off, low

    I have it plugged into an outlet that is connected to a hard wired timer that was installed by an electrician when I installed the pool.
    Garden Leisure Voyager 12x24 AGP, 7500 Gallons, Hayward Power Flo Matrix 1 HP pump, dual speed, Hayward XStream Cartridge Filter, 120 GPM,

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    LauleaHere&There's Avatar
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    Re: Right-size pump & filter

    Thanks, everybody! I've decided on a .75 hp single speed dynamo. Less than $200 on Amazon. Should cut my power usage in half and let my filter do its job.
    12' round above ground pool. 3,500 gal. Vinyl liner. Waterway Supreme Hi-Flo 48 frame pump. 1.5 hp. SWG. Sand filter with Zeobrite.

    Thanks, members of Trouble Free Pool, for being so friendly and informative!

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