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Thread: What's happening?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    What's happening?

    Chemically my pool has been perfectly balanced....UNTIL.

    I decided to add some agaecide protection and added polyquat 30 as a precaution since we're entering a crucial period this time of year here for algae bloom and takeover.

    My cholrine won't even register now.I had maintained it at 4-5 ppm....now nothing even after adding 2 gallons of liquid cholrine.

    PH has risen to 8.4 and it had been staying steady at 7.4.

    I've only added the polyquat at 2 oz per 10000 gal...once a week for the last 3 weeks.

    Anyway....I was going to try and tackle the metal staining so I ordered 5 pounds of citric acid from chemical store.

    Just added 3 cups volumn( dry powder crystals) since it was advised to bring chlorine to 0 before treating with the acid.

    I'll run pump for 24 hours and see how stains look.I also ordered metal magic...I'll wait to add that when and if I begin to see stains dissappearing.

    Any suggestions?

    I just can't understand how the chemistry could get so out of whack with a few ounces of polyquat.

    Thanks in advance for any advice
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: What's happening?

    Are you testing with the FAS-DPD or the OTO kit?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: What's happening?

    I've got both TF100 and Fas DPD....used the chlorine drop test....no color change at all....used the FAS DPD and no color change at all.

    So I know it can't be bad chemicals....just bought them in april,and I store them inside.
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: What's happening?

    Chlorine will breakdown PolyQuat which is why you need to add it every week. However, you usually don't notice a large drop in chlorine unless you are at shock levels. I wrote about this effect in this thread several years ago. The 60% PolyQuat has an initial dose of 9 ounces per 10,000 gallons and a weekly maintenance dose of 3 ounces per 10,000 gallons. This MSDS shows a density for the product of 1.15 g/ml. PolyQuat has a molecular weight of 126.585 g/mole for each nitrogen in the polymer. If one chlorine is required to break up the polymer at each nitrogen, then the initial dose of 9 ounces per 10,000 gallons would be (9 ounces) * (29.57 ml/ounce) * (1.15 g/ml) * (0.60 purity) * (1000 mg/g) * (2*35.453 g/mole Cl2) / ( (10,000 gallons) * (3.785 liters/gallon) * (126.585 g/mole PolyQuat unit per N ) = 2.7 ppm chlorine. It's possible for the chlorine usage to be higher, perhaps 4 ppm FC. Weekly maintenance doses would have 0.9 to 1.4 ppm chlorine demand.

    So at your dosing, this doesn't explain the amount of chlorine loss you are seeing.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: What's happening?

    If you ran the FAS-DPD and the OTO test you can assume there's no FC. You need to get some FC in there right now. I'd bring it to shock level as soon as possible.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: What's happening?

    I've got both TF100 and Fas DPD....used the chlorine drop test....no color change at all....used the FAS DPD and no color change at all.

    So I know it can't be bad chemicals....just bought them in april,and I store them inside.
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: What's happening?

    Any chance lawn fertilizer got into the pool?
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: What's happening?

    Or perhaps the PolyQuat 30 isn't what you think and has something else in it, perhaps ammonium sulfate. Are there ingredients listed on the bottle and can you give the full name of the product and manufacturer so we can look up an MSDS?
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: What's happening?

    I purchased HTH super algae guard

    ingredients imethylBenzyl Amonium Chloride...30%
    DimethylEthybenzyl Amonium Chloride 30%
    rest..inert ingredients

    OOPS!!!...This isn't polyquat is it? I read somwhere that the HTH super algae guard was the same thing as polyquat....after running around to 5 places and not finding "polyquat" label....I ound HTH at KMart...and didn't read ingredients...have a difficult time reading with bifocals.

    That said......I have still used less than bottle recommends.
    Well...any ideas on what I can do to fix my screw up? I just read that the ammonia chlorides eat chlorine...that splains a lot.

    I did get a bottle of Proteam polyquat 60 along with proteam metal magic.

    Should I stay the course for now and work with the citric acid and metal magic...and then super chlorinate it? Should I add polyquat now...or will that make a bigger mess and prevent my stain removal from working?

    If I may ask a different question....The county I live in in Florida is after me to get a Pool fence...even though I have the area wrapped with 6' high wooden privacy fence.

    Any suggestions on where I can find fencing that doesn't cost two arms and a leg?
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: What's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by anonapersona
    Any chance lawn fertilizer got into the pool?

    No chance of fertilizer...just grass clippings...I have mostly weeds here so I've given up trying to grow a nice lawn in the area...planning to deck the whole area in either monolithic concrete slab or pavers...and eventually a pool cage when I can afford it.
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: What's happening?

    Jaydar,

    Chemically my pool has been perfectly balanced.
    Could you post those (current) test results for us, please? You have multiple issues going on but the primary one seems to be you are putting stuff in your pool that is completely unnecessary. (and getting some unsatisfactory results) It's time to go back to the basics of BBB.

    Good analysis begins and ends with accurate testing and knowing what to do with the test results. Post those up and we'll help you get started.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: What's happening?

    If it was my pool, I'd hold off on the AA treatment until the weather cools off near the end of swim season.

    Just my .02
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: What's happening?

    The good news....plaster looks almost new....just a few very faint yellowish stains.

    There was copper in the water because as the spots began to change there were splotches of bluish stains. Those are now gone. Strange because last year I added an algaecide that had copper...it was the only thing that killed the algae I was dealing with.
    Anyway...that was before I found this site and I did 2 half water changes this spring..so shouldn't be much copper...but apparently enough to cause staining.I also have iron stains from nails embedded in the coping....going to try to find a diamond core bit and get them out...about 15 nails in all.

    I haven't added metal magic yet...or chlorine...or the real polyquat 60.

    Chemistry is

    PH: 6.8
    FC: 0
    CC: 0
    TC: 0
    TA: 70
    CH: 430....not much I can do about it...it's in the water supply
    CYA: 30......somehow it has dropped 30ppm
    Water Temp is 86

    Water has a slight milky color.

    Not sure if I should super chlorinate yet...or add metal magic and polyquat or give citric acid more time before adding anything
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: What's happening?

    Well.....this was the quickest problem resolution I've ever had dealing with pool water.

    I super chlorinated with 2.5 gallons of liquid chlorine...added 2 cups of dry cyanuric acid....about a cup less than pool calculator recommended..I haven't tested that since I know it will take about 4-6 days to fully dissolve.

    I added 2.5 pounds of Arm and Hammer super washing soda and added the entire quart of proteam metal magic.

    I now have free and total chlorine at 9 ppm...I expected that...from 0 and no CC.

    Ph is up from 6.8 to 7.4

    Total alkalinity went from 70 ppm to 90 ppm....

    Stains are gone...milkiness is gone....water is crystal clear again.

    I'll keep a close tab on the balance......

    I'll need to replace my CYA reagent....it goes quick when you're testing often.

    Does anyone know which reagents I can purchase in pints that will keep their properties at full strength and which reagents I should replace in smaller bottles?

    Man...this website is awesome.....I thought I'd be looking at,at least 2 weeks of messing with the chemistry....this has only taken 2 days.

    Thank You Trouble Free Pool
    11000 gal L shaped gunite pool with and aggragate plaster
    Pentair cartridge filtration with 1.5 hp pump
    only have 3 returns and one dedicated vacuum line
    manifold to pump is three valve

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