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Thread: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/ SWG

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    Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/ SWG

    I am somewhat confused about the recommended TF balance for a plaster pool w/ SWG and the resulting CSI values. My current test results are as follows;
    pH- 7.5
    FC- 10
    TA-60
    CH-375
    CYA- 75
    Borate-20
    Salt-3200
    Temp- 81 deg.
    CSI- (-.48)

    I know I'm slightly on the high side with my CH values but it is not significantly high and will come back down if it ever rains again here in Houston. I lowered my Ta to 60 recently to try and help stabilize the pH which has done. But now I have these rather high negative CSI values. If I lower the CH it only gets worse, but I would be within the recommended balance for a plaster pool with SWG. I do not want to etch my plaster and it seems I would be better to let my pH rise up to 7.8 to 7.9 and I would be at a more conservative balance. Am I interpreting the Pool Calculator correctly or am I missing something here? It also seems I would be better off to let the TA rise to about 80 and live with the fluctuating pH which is what I have done in the past. It just takes alot of MA to keep the pH below 8.0. I apprereciate your advice and thoughts.
    Larry

    Note- I'm letting the borate levels dilute due to our dog Gator, who loves to swim with us.
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    People tend to put too much truck in the CSI. Don't worry about it till it gets significantly past .6 one way or the other. Just by letting your pH raise a little it changes it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    So if I read you correctly, I don't need to worry about any long term effects to my plaster as long as I am between -.6 to .6?
    Thanks for the fast feedback!
    Larry
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    As Bama said, CSI isn't a big deal in this range. Letting PH go up to around 7.7 or 7.8 is fine. Raising TA is not a good idea, as that will make the PH less stable.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    Thanks Guys!
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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    donaldm823's Avatar
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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    I hope you get answers that say -.44 is OK since the low spec is -.6. I frequently get numbers like -.44 the day after an acid add (I add to 7.5), then the pH rises over the next 5-6 days to 7.8 (and the CSI rises corresponding) when I add another 48oz of acid.

    My other pool chemistry program calculates a -.19 since it corrects for the CYA contribution to your TA
    Don SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter, Pentair SWG, Pentair Intelliflow VS pump (11018)
    FAFCO solar panels w/Pentair SolarTouch controller
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    I did not know that the CYA value contributed to the TA value. Learned somthing new !
    Thanks,
    Larry
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    The Pool Calculator corrects for the CYA contribution to TA, and several other factors not accounted for in LSI. It is the most precise tool available. Most other systems use LSI, which is a simplified system designed to be easy for people to calculate, rather than being precise.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    "I do not want to etch my plaster and it seems I would be better to let my pH rise up to 7.8 to 7.9 and I would be at a more conservative balance. "

    Duk, I had similar readings as yours (but with contantly rising pH--I have a new pool) but with the drought here in Houston and with 150 CH fill water (in the Memorial area) my CH went up to 675 in just six months from the initial fill. With the pH hitting 8.2 for perhaps one out of four days (I would add MA to bring it back down to 7.2) I developed scale on my plaster. Part of the problem was that two pool stores said my CH was in the 400 range and even with pH at 8.2 the CSI at the time (I thought) was around zero so I wasn't concerned. Now I'm very careful to keep pH at or below 7.5 and to watch my CH very carefully. And never trust the pool store's tests.
    9,200 gal. Gunite Luna Quartz French Grey pool with spill over spa, two fountains on tanning ledge (rarely used)
    Pentair Whisperflo 2HP, Pentair CCP Cartridge 420 Sq. Ft., Polaris 280 with booster pump
    Pentair EasyTouch 4, RayPak LoNox 266k Natural Gas heater, Aqua Rite SWCG T Cell 9, Borates, TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    No doubt Jason, it is a great tool and I use it all the time. We really appreciate all you do for this forum. There is no way I could quantify all the dollars saved in preventing potential damage, maintenance and wasted chemicals and the pool knowledge I've gained over the years on this site from you and the other moderators and contributors.
    Thanks Again,
    Larry
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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    Re: Somewhat Confused With CSI and TF Recommended Balance W/

    Quote Originally Posted by HouTex
    "I do not want to etch my plaster and it seems I would be better to let my pH rise up to 7.8 to 7.9 and I would be at a more conservative balance. "

    Duk, I had similar readings as yours (but with contantly rising pH--I have a new pool) but with the drought here in Houston and with 150 CH fill water (in the Memorial area) my CH went up to 675 in just six months from the initial fill. With the pH hitting 8.2 for perhaps one out of four days (I would add MA to bring it back down to 7.2) I developed scale on my plaster. Part of the problem was that two pool stores said my CH was in the 400 range and even with pH at 8.2 the CSI at the time (I thought) was around zero so I wasn't concerned. Now I'm very careful to keep pH at or below 7.5 and to watch my CH very carefully. And never trust the pool store's tests.
    You are so right. I learned this lesson the hard way several years ago. It was what converted me to a BBB guy. I don't trust much of anything I hear at the pool stores.
    Larry
    21,500 gal. IGP, Diamond Kote plaster, spa, and waterfall features, flagstone coping w/ flagstone/river pebble decking. Pentair NSFP 60 filter, 2-ea. 2 HP Whisper Flow pumps, 1-ea. 3/4 HP Hayward booster pump for Polaris 3900 cleaner, AquaLink RS6 controls, GoldLine SWG, T-15 cell

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