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Thread: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

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    How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    We have a cardinall brand double roman 20 x 40 steel wall inground pool that has settled on the deep end. After close inspection (since we have had to remove cantilever coping and concrete deck due to settling) we realized we only have 8 of the 20 "A" arms our pool specs called for . Any thoughts on their importance? We would ask our pb but we have zero faith in what he tells us!
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    I always believe the mfg when it comes to assembly instructions. They build it and have done all the engineering, so they should know how many supports it should take. If the instructions say it needs 20 then less than half will certainly not be enough.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    We had been told that the concrete collar or footer could have cracked and settled. We were starting to dig down to check for ourselves when we noticed the supports were missing the more we looked the more were missing. We are starting to think this may be the cause of our wall height being off by about 2 inches . Liner does not fit flush in this area either , it is in the track but sits out from the wall itself. We will see. Thanks .
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Replacing Missing or Damaged Support Arms--Is It Possible?

    Is it possible to replace missing or damaged support arms on a 3 yr old inground pool? We have had one problem after another with our pool. Since the concrete deck is removed (another story) we we able to see that we have only 8 of the 20 support arms called for in our specs. Obviously we need them since we are having wall issues. Does anyone know how or if these supports can be added now? Ours are "A" arm supports with a turnbuckle to adjust them vertically. Thank You for any advice on this.......
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Possible? Yes certainly, but it is a big job if you want to do it right, nearly as much work as replacing the entire pool. You have to dig out the entire wall in the area you want to work on, jack hammer out the collar, get the wall back into the proper position, insert new support arms, re-pour the collar, rebury, and replace the deck (if there was a deck). As part of doing all of that you will need to replace the coping, liner, and most likely the liner track as well.
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Well great .....Seeing that they support arms are missing around the whole perimeter of the pool and not just one section . Do you know if support arms are missing in a section could make the water level be off there? In our minds we think the wall has tilted back against the fill area from the weight of the water on the pool side This area used to have a concrete cantilever . Sorry for all of the questions.....We are at a loss on what recourse to take.
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    You have some choices to make. Do you want to try and pursue legal action against the builder? Do you want to try and fix it yourself, or hire someone, or give up on the pool? In any case, take a lot of pictures of the problem.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Thanks Jason ,
    We have taken tons of pictures , they don't come close to doing this mess justice. The bids we have gotten are outrageous---rightly so . We chose the cheaper route in picking our pool builder--LESSON LEARNED . We did not even want to think of having to take legal action , but as of tonight that is the direction we are heading. It is the principal of the matter . Will keep you posted...
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Wow, what a lousy deal you were handed. Stories like yours are why I laugh off the funny looks I get when telling people I'm building my own inground pool. Why would they just leave off the support arms? How did they (and did they?) plumb the walls before the collar was poured? What was it backfilled with? If it was just the uncompacted dirt that was taken out, then the walls probably were pushed out by the pressure of the water with nothing to stop them.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd get a structural engineer out to look at the pool ASAP. He/she might even have a reasonable solution to support the walls without busting into the collar, but will at least tell you how badly screwed you are. It might be possible to drain the pool to the bottom of the walls, excavate to the collar, then get some kind of support steel or concrete added. After that, backfill will non-compactable fill like crushed stone. Still thousands of dollars, but far better than a demo/rebuild.
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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Thanks for your reply. We really appreciate the advice. We are completely at a loss on what to do. Your idea of the structural engineer is a great idea:we never would have thought of that on our own. We will keep you posted on what we find out. Just a sickening nightmare.Thank you so much for the post!
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Update: After some encouraging words from us about the State Laws that govern Pool Contractors in the state of Tennessee our PB has had a change in his thinking concerning the mess in our back yard. We went from not being able to contact him or get him out here to address our problems to "Hey , we will do what ever we have to do to make this right and make you satisfied" , hmm...what a change of heart. We will see . I am skeptically optimistic as to what transpires next.

    One thing I do know about pool construction ; check,check and recheck the construction process! Jus because you are shown a paper with a "License and proof of Liability insurance" FOLLOW up with your State Contractors Board to verify this information!!! If you question how something is being done or see a corner being cut---STOP the construction THEN!! And neveer pay a penny until the service you are paying for meets your satisfaction...

    Time will tell how this turns out....
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    I would still spend a few hundred dollars on an engineer. I would want to know that what the PB proposes will in fact work and getting my own licensed engineer to sign off on the plan would give me the leverage I need. From what I have read here correcting this is going to be a big job and the PB is going to take a huge loss on your job. Thus the PB will have every incentive to cut corners and try to fix it with a band aid instead of what is needed.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    We are going to have every aspect checked and rechecked by an inspector . Pictures and documentation of everything . The PB has more too lose by not correcting his mistake on our pool even if he does have to take a loss by doing it right this time .
    20 x 40 Double Roman Cardinal Inground Vinyl Liner With steel Walls, Saltwater, Hayward Light, 1.5 HP pump,Sand Filter, Jandy booster pump

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    Re: How important is the adjustable "A" arm support?

    Glad to see you are going to have it inspected and documented. If it were me, I would want a licensed professional engineer which your inspector may or may not be. I would want the licensed professional engineer because if you wind up in Court he will have the qualifications to testify. In Texas our inspectors are hit or miss and even if they know more than a professional engineer they may not qualify to testify as an expert. Your state may be different.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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