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Thread: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

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    Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    started to do my Borate treatment... I added the MA but the Ta didn't budge... the MA lowered the PH to 7.2 only and since I was already aerating as soon as I added the MA.

    My original TA reading was 110 and the Pool Calculator called for 4-5 cups (I've probably used a 1/2 Gallon aleady but not real change

    How long should before I see the change in TA? should I retreat now or wait to raise the PH through Aeration?

    Thx
    Dan
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering TA

    It can take several cycles of adding acid and then aerating before the TA goes down noticeably. Any reduction in TA will have happened within half an hour of adding acid. Over several cycles small changes in TA, often too small to measure individually, accumulate and the TA goes down.

    Don't lower the PH below 7.0, and stick to 7.2 or higher if you plan to swim.
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    Re: So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

    Dan, it's going to be pretty slow. If you keep your PH low (7.2) and aerate it will come down from 110 but it is going to take awhile. Took me about ten days to go from 110 to 75, and I even lowered my PH t 7.0 at one point!
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    Re: Lowering TA

    Thanks for the quick response couple of questions

    Why did I never get down to PH 7.0 (achieved only 7.2) when I ended up using more MA than the Pool Calc called for?
    How long should I wait after adding the MA before pointing my return up to break the surface? I pointed up as soon as I finished pouring MA

    If my PH is normal for my poll after Aerating tomorrow.... how long should I wait before doing it again?
    Weather is bad in NE ohio so I have a nice window to treat again tomorrow to shoot for the TA 70 goal.
    I am currently seeing a TA reduction from 110 to 90

    Thanks
    Dan
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    maxepr1's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering TA

    I kept it low until I got the TA down where I wanted it.
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    Re: Lowering TA

    so I am more confused now.. did a retest and TA is now 100-110
    so it essentially did not move a bit for having using double the amount of MA

    My PH is still at 7.2 (norm is 7.5 in my pool) even though I've been aerating for 3-4 hours now
    (pump on hi, nozzle up)

    so should I let the pH rise and then try again or stop aerating and hit it with more MA?

    Thx
    Dan
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Take a deep breathe and relax first. This really isn't all that complicated. It takes time is all. 3-4 hours of aeration is nothing, think days, possibly weeks. Leave the pool to work on raising the PH and get back to it tomorrow and see what is up then.
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    cincysaab95's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Is it safe to swim with TA at 100 or greater?
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Yes, it's safe to swim in it. Your tap water may very well be higher than 100 TA, and you bathe in it, drink it, mix it into the kids' kool-aid, even chomp ice cubes with TA>100.

    Red SHirt, it will take a while. If you scroll down on Pool Calculator, you'll see the effects of adding chemicals. A couple cups of acid may drop pH dramatically, but TA will only be reduced by a couple points - possibly not even enough to show on the test!
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    I would have to say that lowering the TA takes longer than any other adjustment that we do to our pools. Some folks find that it takes several weeks to get it lowered. Don't be in any hurry. A high TA is not harmful to you. All it does is require you to lower your pH more frequently than you would have to if your TA was lower. Pool owner patience my friend.

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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Dan, I probably got 80 hours of aeration to drop from 110 to 80! It's going to be slow! Have a drink and enjoy your pool, it will come!
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    OK thanks guys The Sticky on how to add Borates doesn't really cover a timeframe on this!!

    I never noticed any issue with PH movement with my TA at 100-110 its usually spot on 7.5
    PH returned to 7.5 this morning after overnight aeration

    Will test again the TA before leaving for a party tonight
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Is there any documented formula to determine how much TA is raised by X amount of Borax?
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    You can use the effects of adding chemicals section of the Pool Calculator to see how much borax raises the TA. But I don't understand why you would want to know that.

    I'm a bit confused by some of the other things you are saying as well. Lowering TA is covered in the lowering TA article in Pool School and is only mentioned briefly in the adding borates topic. Are you currently in the process of lowering TA in preparation for adding borates, or are you somehow in the middle of adding borates?
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Jason,

    I can see some confusion in my original post... you would think I was dyslexic too many thoughts and running too fast sorry about that.

    I originally posted this as a reply in the Sticky for adding Borates. You moved it here. My 1st sentence is I am beginning my Borate treatment.
    So yes I am beginning to add Borates to my pool by lowering the TA!!

    The Sticky does not reference the Pool School Topic for Loweirng TA, though I learned alot from the 13 pages or so of the comments on the sticky... I had read the Lowering TA topic before, but was focusing on the Borate Sticky at the time(I am also too literal for my own good)

    I did use Pool Calc to estimate my MA required to reduce PH from 7.5 to 7.0 (as recommneded to hit the 7.0 level)
    It never went below 7.2 though. I also used more MA than calculated.

    Hence my hurried post. Things were not going quite as anticipated.

    I dosed it with MA again last night after the party. This time it made it to 7.0, but again I used mre than calculated. I also delayed aerating upward for about 1/2 hour first. Kept the flow on high for dilution though... just not angled upward.

    by 2am I was at Ta 80-90 and PH was raising back to 7.2

    So I switched to slower speed turned on the heater and went to bed!
    Wicked weather in NE Ohio, the pool water has dropped 15 degrees with the rain and lack of sun over the last 5 days

    My post about calculating my end TA after adding Borax and MA was to see if I would be happy with the end TA result once I add the Borate and MA


    Based on my 80-90 TA reading I'll do it again tonight (Drop PH and Ta) and then add the borates and MA!
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Adding borates will raise TA just a little. The borax will raise the TA a great deal and the muriatic acid will lower the TA back down almost as much. There will be a small net increase in TA, but nothing too significant.
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  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    with my TA at 80 (from 100-110) and PH at 7.8 I added the prescribed dosage of MA and Borax to raise the Borates to 50. (I didn't want to buy another 2 gallons pack of MA) and I already had a naturally higher Ta of 100-110).

    also, instead of 10.5 Boxes of Borax I used 10 instead. I ended up last night with TA of 100. My Ph was on the high end at 7.8. after about 4 hours I added some Sodium Bisulfate to reduce it somewhat.

    Left for work super early so will test tonight and then check the borates tonight for the first time

    so that was 4 gallons of MA... I hope this stuff is truly safe to swim in
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    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Shirt Ensign
    with my TA at 80 (from 100-110) and PH at 7.8 I added the prescribed dosage of MA and Borax to raise the Borates to 50. (I didn't want to buy another 2 gallons pack of MA) and I already had a naturally higher Ta of 100-110).

    also, instead of 10.5 Boxes of Borax I used 10 instead. I ended up last night with TA of 100. My Ph was on the high end at 7.8. after about 4 hours I added some Sodium Bisulfate to reduce it somewhat.

    Left for work super early so will test tonight and then check the borates tonight for the first time

    so that was 4 gallons of MA... I hope this stuff is truly safe to swim in
    Borates will make the water softer, my wife says it feels CLEAN on your skin! You don't feel like you need to shower.
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  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Lowering TA in order to do the Borate treatment

    Kids swam last night and no issues, no reports of nice water either
    It looks soft though based on the water ripples in the water during Aeration. Water is very sparkly!
    I'll be getting in tonight after kids baseball

    My water looks like night and day comapred to the neighbor kids pool who came over to swim yesterday. They have an algae problem this spring and they have a murky blue swamp (They never really completed the shock process (I could go on and on about it, I tried to help them by giving them links to to TFP and the proper articles for defeating algae etc I even tested the water a couple of times to show them they need help

    She is a firm Pool store drone still (I could go on and on!!!)
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