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Thread: Done with the SWG

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    Done with the SWG

    I struggled all last summer and never was able to get our SWG able to handle chlorine production on its own.
    aquapilot-sc-48-can-t-keep-up-with-fc-demand-t22288.html

    I've decided I'm just going to bag it this year and unplug the thing. I figure I'll save a ton on electricity by being able to run the pump a lot less (about 33%) as well as whatever power the SWG unit uses. Does it actually use that much...not sure?? At any rate, I'll also save on buying salt. I'll save on buying more CYA. Whenever I had to shock last year, and it was a lot, I had to use so much chlorine with the high CYA the SWG requires. I seem to be adding bleach all the time and can't trust the thing if we leave for an extended period in the summer, so what's the point really? Just going to make it a job for the kids to add a few cups-o-bleach a day and be done with it.
    Andrew
    25,000 gal IG Vinyl - PoolPilot SC48 SWG - Sta-Rite 1HP/System3 CF - AquaCal HeatPump - TF-100

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    Voodoo_Pool's Avatar
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    I am with you on the no SWG. Hopefully you are having better success without it.

    Maybe I can teach my dog to add those few cups-o-bleach a day and be done with it. Meanwhile, I will continue to manually dose my TF pool.
    22,000 gallons "L" shaped with spillway spa; Hayward 4820 DE; IG Vinyl; 2000 ppm salt; 50 ppm Borates; liquid chlorine; Polaris w/ booster; TF-100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    NOOooooooo......

    Hi Andrew,

    From the posts last year, you never provided a conclusion as to what happened after you shocked your pool.

    The AutoPilot does not use much electricity to generate the chlorine. Your size pool should not require you to run your pump much longer than you normally would without the salt system, 8 hrs/day. You indicated that you previously were able to run it at 8 hrs/day, and 50% on Power Level 2, to now 12 hrs, 100% at Power Level 3. This is not normal.

    If you would entertain me with updating us on what happened since you shocked the pool, or at least, since start up this season.

    What are you getting on the cell amps and volts (Do a TEST POOL PILOT diagnosis)?
    For your typical swim season, you only need to add cya at the beginning of the season, then again only when you add more salt, due to backwashing your filter, or spashout. Even at that, you're only adding about 3/4 lb for every 50 lbs of salt.

    From last year, you reported, "OK, I ran the pump/SWG for 12 hrs from 7pm to 7am @ 100% power setting 3 and the FC went up 1.5ppm (from 5.5 to 7.0)"... to me, this would indicate that it's making chlorine for sure.
    If your chlorine level dropped out quickly, as in this statement, "OK...so last night FC did NOT hold. Dropped 1ppm from 5 to 4. Can pollen create this sort of demand?", and Jason's reply, "Pollen can use a little FC, but pollen alone using up 1.0 of FC overnight is very unusual.", which I would agree with, it USUALLY ends up being a situation of some unknown high chlorine demand condition. In the industry, we just arbitrarily call it CHLORINE LOCK. Shocking is usually "A" solution.

    Have you had to deal with any algae? What chemicals have you added to your pool, other than liquid chlorine for shocking or supplimenting, Muriatic Acid, salt and stabilizer?

    If you put your system in boost, let it run a few minutes, then take a water sample from directly after the cell (loosen the union nut slightly and take a water sample of the water trickling out), you should detect a higher chlorine level than what's in your pool.

    Heck, you've invested time and money in your Pool Pilot, I would love to get it working to your satisfaction, as it should.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    I didn't realize you had posted, Sean, but I was just about to come back and say I was going to give it one more shot. I hate not figuring something out....like an unsolved puzzle...it was really going to bug me. So I just picked up 160 lbs of solar salt. I'll report back after it's back on line and I've done some testing.
    Andrew
    25,000 gal IG Vinyl - PoolPilot SC48 SWG - Sta-Rite 1HP/System3 CF - AquaCal HeatPump - TF-100

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Thank You!
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Okay....
    -Salt is back up to 3250-3500ppm for the past few days.
    -On Boost....unit test shows 28V and 5.4-5.7 amps (amps seem to jump around a bit but this seems about right going into our 4th season, correct?)
    -FC: 7.5 in the pool
    -FC: 8.5 at the SWG
    -CC: 0
    -TA:100-110
    -pH: 7.2-7.5 (closer to 7.5)
    -CYA-50-60 (this was taken about 3 weeks ago....only have enough cya reagent for one more test and it is really dark today)

    I believe this might have been a CYA test or reading problem....here's why....last week when the SWG was offline I did an overnight FC test and lost about 0.5ppm. (8.5 to 8.0) I did not add any bleach. It was a sunny day, light to medium bather load and in 12 hours we lost nearly all the FC.....8.0ppm. No way we should have lost that much if our CYA was indeed 50-60.....correct?

    So, last year I think we didn't actually have enough CYA, because even after I would clean up any organic problems, we would still get behind on chlorine. (FWIW we have only ever added salt, CYA, bleach, borax, and baking soda to the pool.) Next step, I'm going to take a water sample, test it with our turbity test and take some from the same sample batch to the LPS for them to test. Then I'll adjust stabilizer once we have a more accurate baseline.
    Andrew
    25,000 gal IG Vinyl - PoolPilot SC48 SWG - Sta-Rite 1HP/System3 CF - AquaCal HeatPump - TF-100

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Andrew,

    Regardless of the pool store test, trust your own testing....it's the one that'll be correct about 98% of the time.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Hi Dave,
    I use your TFP 100 kit (think that was it anyway?) and have been getting all my testing supplies from you....need to order some more CYA reagent (as well as some other stuff), but for the meantime, are there any conditions that would give a false high CYA reading? I read some threads from a number of years ago discussing high readings in the presence of algae, but there did not seem to be a consensus on the topic. Also, are there any economical CYA tests aside from the black dot/turbidity test? I have such a problem with this, even after reading all the tips and tricks. I usually try to have a second person verify, but they too have a tough time. Maybe my eyes are just going bye-bye
    Andrew
    25,000 gal IG Vinyl - PoolPilot SC48 SWG - Sta-Rite 1HP/System3 CF - AquaCal HeatPump - TF-100

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg
    Hi Dave,
    I use your TFP 100 kit (think that was it anyway?) and have been getting all my testing supplies from you....need to order some more CYA reagent (as well as some other stuff), but for the meantime, are there any conditions that would give a false high CYA reading? I read some threads from a number of years ago discussing high readings in the presence of algae, but there did not seem to be a consensus on the topic. Also, are there any economical CYA tests aside from the black dot/turbidity test? I have such a problem with this, even after reading all the tips and tricks. I usually try to have a second person verify, but they too have a tough time. Maybe my eyes are just going bye-bye
    I have the same problem, I hate guessing when the dot go's away. Its basically up to ones obsevation to when the dot go's away. I just sit there and think is it still there? The error in that has to account for something. I could test and get 100 ppm at home ad go to 3 stores and get 3 diff readings one of which uses a colorimeter, one uses a taylor and one uses the old plunger test but basically is the same style as the taylor.
    I should have gotten the lamotte colorimeter.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    After a little more research i see the colorimeter is sketchy too. Aghh my world for an easy to read test. LOL I know i am being anal. I like black or white NO grey.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    andrewg, testing CYA indoors or at night can cause false high readings. The test is designed to be read in sunlight with your body shading the view tube. Very murky water can also cause false high readings. A good way to check for problems due to murky water is to fill the view tube with just pool water. If the black dot is substantially or completely obscured then there is likely to be a problem. If you can still see the black dot clearly then the test results are valid.

    Pool-creetin, the test gets easier to do with practice. You can do the filling of the view tube several times with a single sample as long as you do it within a few minutes of the original test. With practice you should be able to get the same result +-10 several times in a row.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Done with the SWG

    Check your CYA at the same time of day each time you do the test. You are going to get a deifferent reading if you check it in the morning versus the afternoon. It's best to do it on a bright and sunny day with the tube shaded. Because it is a turbidity test, the ambient light must be of consistent brightness each time you test.

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    dremin2flyhi's Avatar
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    I found an easy way to do it for me :

    I done the test outside 5X --with my back to the sun and got my average --it was really close between 70-75 ppm ..

    I then went into my bathroom --placed the speed stir on the counter-- placed the tube on the base and turned on the led and the lights above my counter and done the test 5x there also.. My average for this test came out closer to the 70 ppm each time. So this is how I test it now-- I know that it reads about 5 ppm low based on my outside test.

    I was WAY more consistent doing the test this way. I guess it has something to do with ambient lighting that comes in from the bottom of the tube.
    24' x52" Sharkline Venture (May 2016) ABG (13,500)
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    Re: Done with the SWG

    [I have such a problem with this, even after reading all the tips and tricks. I usually try to have a second person verify, but they too have a tough time. Maybe my eyes are just going bye-bye [/quote]


    Here is a tip that I have used: Buy R-7065 CYA Standard Solution from tftestkits.net. This is a 50 ppm solution to train your eyes. My son always reads 30% lower than what I get and he matches what our LPS reads. Once I tried the R-7065 solution, I learned that I need to keep the tube closer to my eyes and now my son and I are right on with each other. Just make sure you add the R-0013 and R-7065 together and not use pool water.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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