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Thread: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

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    Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Ok, my pool is to be installed this weekend. My electrician is trying to get the info he needs. The pool shop said to simply use a twist lock plug. 110, 20 amp. My electrician said those are only rated for 1hp motors. My motor is a 2hp hayward. He said anything over a 1hp should be on a 30 amp. The pool shop is little help. I can't confirm anything until I can actually get the pumps booklet in my hands. Any advice? And yes, I know, the 2hp is way too much for a 24ft AGP, but it is the only 2 speed pump they carry.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    I am 99% this is the pump I am getting, with a cartridge filter.

    http://www.shopthegreatescape.com/produ ... eries-pump
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    2 HP is too big. They can get a smaller pump in 2-speed.

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    2 HP is too big. They can get a smaller pump in 2-speed.
    It is already ordered and paid for.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    And anyone know where I can order a timer that can handle this motor? Most timers I have seen, say they are rated for 1hp or less. sigh...
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Send it back and get a smaller pump. Seriously, I'm not trying to be difficult, but that is not a good choice. I don't know why pool dealers are putting these large pumps on above ground pools. It's not right. They shouldn't have advised you that it was the correct pump. It really shouldn't be a big deal to use a smaller pump.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Calling that a 2 HP pump is misleading. Manufacturers fudge the HP numbers all the time, in this case to make it look like a larger motor than it really is. A 20 amp twist lock will be fine. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything at Hayward's web site you could use to prove that to the electrician.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Calling that a 2 HP pump is misleading. Manufacturers fudge the HP numbers all the time, in this case to make it look like a larger motor than it really is. A 20 amp twist lock will be fine. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything at Hayward's web site you could use to prove that to the electrician.
    That's what I told my electrician too. I HIGHLY doubt it is a full 2hp. It is the motor they sell on 80% of their pools. I looked at all their package deals. The fact that it is a 2 speed, would make it run on low speed like a much smaller hp pump, yes? They said you basically run it on high for vacuuming.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    And MAKE sure you use a GFCI Breaker..... 20 amp is more than enough. Also not a bad idea to have a safety shut off switch as well.
    25k 20x40 Gunite w/ integrated Spa & Caribbean Blue Plaster, Curved Bluestone Coping, Deck Jets
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    A 3/4 HP motor would be way more than enough for an above ground pool. Why do you want a two speed motor?

    My 24,000 gallon pool uses a 1½ HP motor operated at 230 volts and it uses only about 7 amps. In addition it completely changes the water in my pool in 6 hours.

    I'm not sure why a two speed motor would help? Is there something I don't know about newer pools?

    I hope your filter and plumbing will handle the amount of water your 2 HP motor will pump.

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by CalRed
    A 3/4 HP motor would be way more than enough for an above ground pool. Why do you want a two speed motor?

    My 24,000 gallon pool uses a 1½ HP motor operated at 230 volts and it uses only about 7 amps. In addition it completely changes the water in my pool in 6 hours.

    I'm not sure why a two speed motor would help? Is there something I don't know about newer pools?

    I hope your filter and plumbing will handle the amount of water your 2 HP motor will pump.
    Quote from pump basics in pool school:

    "The primary benefit of multi-speed pumps is that they cost much less to run at lower speeds than at higher speeds. A two speed pump will use approximately 1/3 of the energy on low speed versus high speed. However, to get the same filtering of the water, the pump needs to be run twice as long on low versus high but that still saves over 33% in energy. Variable speed pumps can have even more savings for lower speeds."

    Unfortunately, I don't know what the low speed is on the motor yet, but for example, lets say it is 1hp. At most times, it will run as a 1hp motor, but I have the option to use the high setting for vacuuming. How would that, NOT be more economical than a 1 1/2 hp one speed?? Trust me, I have read about the advice on smaller motors, and have went to all three pool shops in my area. They all have packages for oversized pumps, atleast this one is a two speed, so I can use the low setting most of the time. I do also wonder, if a 2 speed, mostly running on low, is more efficient than a one speed running the same output. At any rate, my problem right now, is the plug.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    If it is paid for just do as you have said run it on low for normal filtering and only on high for vacuuming. You may need to talk to another electrician?
    35K IG Vinyl 20 x 40 self built pool, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter 31" 98gal/min, Hayward TriStar 1.85hp, Hayward 400btu heater, BBB method w/Hypo, Jazz light w/matching fiber optic rope lighting around coping w/syncronized color wheels. Concrete Paver deck.

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    A two speed motor is 1/8th the HP on low that it is on high. So your 2 HP two speed with be 1/4 HP on low. A single speed 1/4 HP motor would be about the same efficiency and would cost less, but it would not be able to backwash a sand or DE filter, or vacuum, or coat the grids on a DE filter, nor could it prime if it was above the water level.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Why not just get 1/2 HP pump and call it done. I would think it would be more than enough for 24ft AG.

    Purchasing an excessively oversized 2 speed pump to just have a 2 speed pump, IMO makes no sense economically.
    Completed: June 2011
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by mx702
    Why not just get 1/2 HP pump and call it done. I would think it would be more than enough for 24ft AG.

    Purchasing an excessively oversized 2 speed pump to just have a 2 speed pump, IMO makes no sense economically.
    Well, the cost, since they "package" everything together, is not that much. I checked what it would be to downsize to a smaller one speed. Hardly any price difference from them.

    Also, I found the pump box (pool was delivered, and is sitting in garage) I read the specs to the pump. 115 volts, 15 amps. And SF: SPL. Whatever that means, but when I said it, my electrician said, "Oh, ok then, it's not a "real" 2hp motor. So, like was assumed, it is "fudged" to make the common person think it is nice and big. I think it is just like the computer "world", how they tell people how fast the processor is, then leave the minimum RAM in there, and the common person thinks they got a really fast, powerful computer.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    The real question is...2 inch returns or 1.5 inch?

    Sorry couldn't resist.

    I have a 3/4HP one speed pump on my 18X36 IG, sounds like if you aim the eyeballs the right way you could have a whirlpool!

    My only advice is make sure the electrician checks the motor rotation when its installed, might want to double check that one yourself. If I had a dime for every electrician that installed a pump and told me it was rotating the correct way only to find out later it was backwards...I would be a rich man. It will still pump connected backwards hence why they think its correct.

    BTW I would hard wire the pump, plugs are nothing but a hassle and a source of high resistance in any electrical circuit. I've seen enough outdoor 30A twist lock plugs burnt from corrosion induced resistance that unless it was in a covered pool house I wouldn't use them.
    55 Kilolitre in-ground 18'X36' vinyl lined kidney shape, 1HP pump, Jacuzzi 250lb sand filter, RayPak Delta T 200K BTU natural gas heater. New PoolWerks "Blue Diffusion" liner on May 26th-2011
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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by 4JawChuck
    The real question is...2 inch returns or 1.5 inch?

    Sorry couldn't resist.

    I have a 3/4HP one speed pump on my 18X36 IG, sounds like if you aim the eyeballs the right way you could have a whirlpool!

    My only advice is make sure the electrician checks the motor rotation when its installed, might want to double check that one yourself. If I had a dime for every electrician that installed a pump and told me it was rotating the correct way only to find out later it was backwards...I would be a rich man. It will still pump connected backwards hence why they think its correct.

    BTW I would hard wire the pump, plugs are nothing but a hassle and a source of high resistance in any electrical circuit. I've seen enough outdoor 30A twist lock plugs burnt from corrosion induced resistance that unless it was in a covered pool house I wouldn't use them.
    LOL, well, I am just doing 1 1/2. I couldn't justify all the adapters for each part, pump, filter, etc... For such short runs. Besides, this is for a pool open only a short time. (Ohio weather sucks)

    Ok, stupid question, how do I check if it is rotating the right direction? You mean he could wire the plug socket for it to run backwards? I could see, if he hard wires, which I can't since I want to take the pump and filter inside during the winter. We are getting good weather boxes or whatever you call them, for the outlets.
    14.6K gal., 24ft, 54" above ground. 2HP, 2speed Hayward pump (4psi low, 18psi hi), 150sqft cartridge filter. 4x20 solar panel (6 psi).

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Quote Originally Posted by 4JawChuck
    The real question is...2 inch returns or 1.5 inch?

    Sorry couldn't resist.

    I have a 3/4HP one speed pump on my 18X36 IG, sounds like if you aim the eyeballs the right way you could have a whirlpool!

    My only advice is make sure the electrician checks the motor rotation when its installed, might want to double check that one yourself. If I had a dime for every electrician that installed a pump and told me it was rotating the correct way only to find out later it was backwards...I would be a rich man. It will still pump connected backwards hence why they think its correct.

    BTW I would hard wire the pump, plugs are nothing but a hassle and a source of high resistance in any electrical circuit. I've seen enough outdoor 30A twist lock plugs burnt from corrosion induced resistance that unless it was in a covered pool house I wouldn't use them.
    How are you going to reverse a single phase motor without changing the starter windings? Surely the motor was tested at the factory and usually the labels are quite clear where to attach the wires. However I would never tell someone not to check if there was any doubt.

    Now if it was three phase, it would be easy but no worry with single phase.

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    Haha I assumed it was 3 phase until I seen it was an above ground, no worries if its single phase...whoops!

    Can't wait for the video of you doing spins on a lounger when she's on high speed!

    J/K about the 1.5" or 2" piping, totally unnecessary IMHO....but you will find plenty of posts to the contrary! Nothing wrong with hardwiring it, plugs are just another failure point...I take my pump inside every year and disconnect the hardwiring myself...its only three Marrettes and one ground screw to disconnect once you open the breaker.

    Of course if the idea of opening up an electrical box is daunting, a plug is a better choice.

    Heres the socket style I would recommend, its IP67 rated (waterproof) if your outlet is exposed to rain. IP44 is the splashproof rating if yours is protected, this one is rated 24VAC - 32A and has three pins for your single phase motor.



    http://www.industrial-plugs.com/indu...al-socket.html

    Lots of different mfg's out there, this is only a sample of what to expect if you go looking at suppliers catalogues.
    55 Kilolitre in-ground 18'X36' vinyl lined kidney shape, 1HP pump, Jacuzzi 250lb sand filter, RayPak Delta T 200K BTU natural gas heater. New PoolWerks "Blue Diffusion" liner on May 26th-2011
    Avatar is my pool!

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    Re: Anyone know their electrical? Help, with pump plug

    That plug/socket is completely inappropriate for a residential pool. It isn't twist lock, which is most likely required by code (depends on the area), and otherwise is overkill for this situation.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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