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Thread: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a believer

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    Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a believer

    Hi All,

    This is Melissa, Brad has been doing all of our posting so far. I've got a couple questions about all the JUNK in our pool. Remember our pool was not taken care of last fall and all the leaves and **** fell into the pool. I have been scooping leaves and sticks and stuff (6-8 times so far) and we are still getting leaves in every scoop with the leaf rake. We have never actually seen the bottom of our deep end so I have NO IDEA how much junk is still left in the bottom, and we are just blindly scooping.

    How much do all the rotting leaves still in the pool contribute to our algae/solid green water problem? Any suggestions on how to deal with leaves, especially since we can't actually see them? Should we vacuum? The pool company says they have a chemical I can add that will bring all the leaves to the surface.

    Second question: How many times a day should we/can we be brushing the walls? Our algae problem is insane!! When we brush the walls our psi on the filter sky rockets with in a couple of hours and we have to run a backwash. Is it ok to do this multiple times a day and is it helping?

    Our pool is the grossest solid shade of green I have ever seen! We can't even see the bottom stair in the shallow end!

    Now I have to admit when Brad introduced this forum and website to me I voiced my skepticism. My mom has been a pool owner for 20+ years and has always done it the pool company way. So I assumed that would be the way we did it. I even told one our neighbors Brad was trying a "Home Brew" method on the pool The pool company is selling me hard on adding copper based algaecide to the pool (which I had ordered online) but for now I am letting my Husband have his way and trying it trouble free pool's way.

    Brad has been shocking the pool like crazy! I think he has added 10 128 oz jugs of 10% chlorine in the last couple days. We did a full test this morning with the new test kit we got yesterday and he is also taking a sample over to the pool store to compare to our test kit (TF-100).

    Result from this morning:
    TC 14
    FC 13.5
    CC 0.5
    pH 7.4
    TA 190
    CH 190
    CYA 25

    The TA from the pool company over the past couple of days has always been about 90-110, so that one is a bit higher with our test kit.
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Do......NOT.....add the copper based algaecide. Used mostly as a preventative. The more junk you can scoop out.......the quicker you will clear the pool, or at least get to the point where you can actually see what you have left. Keep holding that FC for the shock value of your CYA. Keep running the pump/filter 24/7 and backwash as necessary. Trust YOUR numbers! Hang in and have patience and a beverage of your choice. TFP advice is a lot cheaper than the pool store.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    You're using the chlorine to clean the pool (obviously), so the more stuff in it that you can get out the less it has to clean. The decaying plant matter is consuming chlorine that you want to use to kill the algae. Keep on scooping! It might not feel like it, but you're speeding the process up.
    27k Gal, IG Plaster Ansylbrite, Pentair FNSP60 DE Filter, Jandy Aquapure APURE1400 SWG, WhisperFlo WFE-28 pool pump, WhisperFlo WFE-26 Waterfall pump, Raypak P-R406A-EN-C Heater, Polaris 1-470-02 Air Blower, Jandy PDA 4.1a firmware

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    It'll work. Decades ago I worked summers at a scout camp. The pool was basically just shut off and ignored for 9 months of the year, and in May, we'd have to clear it. There was no telling what got blown in over the winter, you couldn't see 2" into the water. When we raked leaves off the bottom, we actually used a steel garden rake attached to a longer pole! I dragged a broken-off pine branch at least eight feet long out once.

    You can vacuum blindly. You'll be cleaning out the pump strainer about every 5 minutes, and backflushing every two hours or so, if it's as bad as our pool was. We didn't have anything but a cheap two-way test kit - pH and TC, and still managed to get it clear in about a week using nothing but liquid chlorine and muriatic acid. And elbow grease.

    You don't need anything more complicated than that.

    Don't use anything with copper unless you're sorta punk, and like green hair.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Welcome to TFP. I have been using TFP for 3 years now, and if ever there was a skeptic it was me. The dh bought this pool for the grandkids, and he works out of town, so it is up to me to care for it. The 1st year I dumped so many chemicals in it (walmart) and got so fed up that it would not clear when I found TFP. The people on TFP have no other interest but to help you! I have asked numerous questions and have never been led astray. We do not have a winter cover (I swear this is the year), so every year we fight the leaves and have algae when opening. If you can vacuum to waste it will help get the leaves up alot! It won't take long to tell a difference in your water after you get rid of them. The 1st year, my cya was so high from all the walmart chemicals I added that my shock level was through the roof and I was scared to death I was going to tear up something! Take time and read different posts and pool school and I bet you will be convinced. Then take control of your pool!
    16 x 32 AG Fanta Sea 13,500 gal/ Hayward Sand Filter/ 1 hp Hayward Power Flo LX Pump
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    For now, do not be too concerned about that TA test......it may be a little high. One of the known interferences with that test is VERY Fresh R-0009 (That's the one where you count the drops and multiply by 10). Because of static electricity, it will often develop smaller than normal drops that sort of "Jump" of the dropper tip. That causes your TA to read falsely high.

    Try that test again and wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth every 2 drops or so. If it was static that skewed that test, that will cure it. It'll go away on it's own after somewhere around 30 days.

    Again, the TA test is really not pertinent to your pool issues right now so I would ignore those results and focus on vacuuming and scooping those leaves. I have been there and done that and it is a real PITA but it must be done to get your pool sparkling.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    I'm very new to this proscess and I still have a lot of doubts, especially the, what seems to be, high FC numbers in relation to our CYA. But I've lost covers over the winter and had green swamps to clean up AND I remember the hopeless feeling that this will never work. After a week, suddenly, things start looking blue and then clear and then, WOW!

    It's all about cleaning out the gunk, SHOCKING the pool and yes, my filter would need to be backwashed every hour for days till the muck cleared up. That's what a filter does, traps all the dirt and it has to then go somewhere.

    Hang in there, you're on the right track.
    15 X 30 X 3.6 Ester williams AGP
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    So far today we have brushed 3 times, continued working on scooping leaves, back washed a few times and added 2.2 gallons of 10%. Having the test kit is so nice to be able to frequently check our FC levels. Still greener then green though. Hoping to see some changes soon!
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    We are helping our neighbor clean up his swampy pool and he had the same situation where there was tons of muck on the bottom but you couldn't see further than a few inches into the water. He has a leaf gulper vacuum that works with a garden hose and we were able to get a lot of the stuff out, including about 8 or 10 dead frogs and toads which were quite smelly. His chlorine consumption has dropped considerably already. Just sharing our experience in the hope it helps,
    Jan
    Summer: 19 x 37 Pacific Graphex IG modified oval, aztec marine vinyl liner, 24,000 gal, 3.5 feet to 8 feet, 1 hp Hayward C4025 Swim Clear 4-cartridge filter, 12.5% Liquid Pool Shock for sanitizing, 1 super wide mouth skimmer, 4 returns (2 therapy jets in steps), Hayward Heat Pro heat pump, non-curved pool slide, 6' jump board, 8 ml blue solar cover, TF-100 test kit, had pink algae in 2010 Winter: Hot Springs Vista Spa, 500 gallons.

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    I hadn't even considered there could be dead animals in there! Hoping I would have already scooped those out
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320

    You can vacuum blindly. You'll be cleaning out the pump strainer about every 5 minutes, and backflushing every two hours or so, if it's as bad as our pool was.

    When you say "pump stainer" are you referring to the clear top basket thingy (technical I know) that we can see in that is on the pump? Or are you referring to the skimmer basket?

    Thanks,
    Melissa
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelakeside
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320

    You can vacuum blindly. You'll be cleaning out the pump strainer about every 5 minutes, and backflushing every two hours or so, if it's as bad as our pool was.

    When you say "pump stainer" are you referring to the clear top basket thingy (technical I know) that we can see in that is on the pump? Or are you referring to the skimmer basket?

    Thanks,
    Melissa
    The clear top thingy. If you're using a vacuum plate over the skimmer basket, that will be the one that gets clogged first instead.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Keep at it... and like they said, don't use the algaecide! You will slowly start to see results.

    Do a search on the forums and you will find others who have come from a swamp to a beautiful.. and some w/pictures to show you their process. I've not had to clear a swamp, but looking through the forums and seeing that it can be done is what sold me on these people... They know what they're doing! Hang in there!

    You will spend less using the BBB and either way it's going to be a lot of work.
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist buy w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panels mix 2, TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    You need more chlorine... 1280 oz (10 gallons of 6%) in a 25K pool only raises it to 25ppm - and in a pool that green it will go down quickly.

    10 Gallons won't do it. You may need 3-4x that or more that to get through this process... Step on it, then test about hourly - and step on it any time that number goes below 20. If you stay on-top of it and make sure the FC is always 20ppm or greater, the pool should be white in 24 hours.

    But - keep working on getting the muck out. It will eat chlorine very, very fast. Get a leaf-hopper and use it (as described above - I call it, "The Power Tool") - Leslie's may have one in stock.

    I know you're shaking your head, but this is a winnable battle - just keep thinking.... "WINNING!"
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
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    NWMNMom's Avatar
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Like they are saying above, it's all about getting anything organic OUT of the pool - the quicker you manually get the organic stuff out, the faster the chlorine will actually work to clear the water - it will seem like a losing battle if you get tempted to give up on the scooping. If that pool has been sitting untended as long as you say it was before you took over, you may have a LOT of scooping to do. Can you recruit any help? Offer beer and barbeque to adult friends or even offer to pay some neighbor kids or nephews or something. Scooping the leaves and junk completely out will really make your pool turn that corner as you will see immediate improvement in water quality once the chlorine doesn't have to contend with solid stuff.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    You need more chlorine... 1280 oz (10 gallons of 6%) in a 25K pool only raises it to 25ppm - and in a pool that green it will go down quickly.

    10 Gallons won't do it. You may need 3-4x that or more that to get through this process... Step on it, then test about hourly - and step on it any time that number goes below 20. If you stay on-top of it and make sure the FC is always 20ppm or greater, the pool should be white in 24 hours.

    But - keep working on getting the muck out. It will eat chlorine very, very fast. Get a leaf-hopper and use it (as described above - I call it, "The Power Tool") - Leslie's may have one in stock.

    I know you're shaking your head, but this is a winnable battle - just keep thinking.... "WINNING!"
    We have been keeping our FC above 12, our CYA is 25-30, and we are using 10%. Will try bumping it up to 20 ppm and will continue testing tomorrow, will also try to vacuum. The old owners left behind a Polaris 145, anyone know anything about those?
    Thanks,
    Mel
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    The trick to making it go fast is to keep it high, don't let it go low - when there's that much stuff in the pool, it will drop below 20 quickly.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Here's the manual for your Polaris 145 : http://www.mariespoolstore.com/Websi...%20English.pdf
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    Thank you for the link for the Polaris!

    Well Folks today we have FINALLY seen some progress. Instead of being forest green, pea green, or lime green our water has some blue tint to it. Still cloudy and can't see the bottom but it is progress. We are keeping our FC above 20 and have done lots of brushing, scooping leaves, sticks, acorns, worms and more brushing. So far we have used 27-128 oz bottles of 10% liquid chlorine, WOW! We have had to run the backwash on our filter approx. every 2-4 hours. Which leads me to my next question. I had a water sample done at the pool store today and it showed our CYA levels at zero. We did a test with our TF-100 and our level was definitely below 20. A few days ago our CYA was at 25-30. Can we really have lost all our CYA just from backwashing? Or should we assume the pool store was wrong and how would we get a more accurate test result since our test tube only measures to 20?
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Leaves in the pool, Brushing, and Backwash - Not a belie

    I would trust your reading. Definetly get some more in there - use the sock method.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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