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Thread: Newbie having info overload

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    Join Date
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    Newbie having info overload

    Hi,

    After years of begging from my kids, I finally relent and ordered a pool . It will be installed about 2 weeks from now.

    It is a 18' x 33' x 54" oval pool. It includes a 1.5hp hayward 2 speed pump and 20" hayward sand filter. Started googling about pools and landed right here.

    I have been reading the very helpful articles on pool school. I guess it is just too much info some of my brain matter is leaking outta my ears (gotta find an ear plug! Can't afford to waste anymore brain cells...)

    Anyways, 1st thing that was clear to me is in order to get a good water quality, I need a good test kit so I ordered the TF-100 test kit .

    Now the questions :
    1. How does all the different chemicals tied together? I noticed that chlorine and cya are tied together. How about the pH, TA, and other stuff?

    2. I am having the installer sink the pool two feet. This voids the warranty on collapsing inward but the pool store said as long as you have water inside the pool, this should not be a problem. Is there any instance where I need to remove all the water from the pool?

    3. Pool store includes a pool kit that is supposed to last for 3 weeks and this includes shocking the pool every week. I have read some advice that shocking every week is not necessary. I am also thinking of using the BBB method. Any advice on how to start using the BBB method in a new pool?

    4. Do I have to cover the pool with solar blanket every time it is not used?

    5. Pool store guy told me that I can run the pump at low speed 24hrs using only 3amps, is this true? Or will it be better to get a timer and have the pump go on/off for a specific time?

    I know I have more questions, I just can't remember them.
    18' X 33' X 54" AGP Morada 54" (16,325 gallons) (July 10, 2011)
    Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1-1/2hp (SP1593)
    Hayward Pro Series Top-Mount Sand Filter (S-210T)

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    I'll wait to answer until later, since your brain is already full. Take heart, the chemistry makes more sense once you start doing it. You'll see correlation between what you just added and what the test now says.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Not trying to add to the aching head but maybe this will help a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by berserk
    Now the questions :
    1. How does all the different chemicals tied together? I noticed that chlorine and cya are tied together. How about the pH, TA, and other stuff? All the chems interact somewhat but don't cause yourself more of a headache than you already have. You'll become more familiar with that over time.

    2. I am having the installer sink the pool two feet. This voids the warranty on collapsing inward but the pool store said as long as you have water inside the pool, this should not be a problem. Is there any instance where I need to remove all the water from the pool? The only time you need to drain all the water is to replace the liner. Even then if the pool has been up a while the chance of it caving in is small.

    3. Pool store includes a pool kit that is supposed to last for 3 weeks and this includes shocking the pool every week. I have read some advice that shocking every week is not necessary. I am also thinking of using the BBB method. Any advice on how to start using the BBB method in a new pool? If you do it right and follow the advice here you will likely never have to shock. Starting BBB is easy. All you need to do is get a good test kit (you've already got that covered) and learn to use the pool calculator.

    4. Do I have to cover the pool with solar blanket every time it is not used? No, it's only required if you want to preserve the heat that's in the pool. There are times during the summer that I don't put my cover on at all because I want it to cool down.

    5. Pool store guy told me that I can run the pump at low speed 24hrs using only 3amps, is this true? Or will it be better to get a timer and have the pump go on/off for a specific time? That's a personal choice. Most people I know with a 2-speed pump run it on low 24/7 during swim season. You can start out that way then add a timer if you want to later.

    I know I have more questions, I just can't remember them. You'll definitely have more and you cna feel free to ask them anytime.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Hi, welcome to TFP! I will answer inside your post in red
    Quote Originally Posted by berserk
    Hi,

    After years of begging from my kids, I finally relent and ordered a pool . It will be installed about 2 weeks from now.

    It is a 18' x 33' x 54" oval pool. It includes a 1.5hp hayward 2 speed pump and 20" hayward sand filter. Started googling about pools and landed right here.

    I have been reading the very helpful articles on pool school. I guess it is just too much info some of my brain matter is leaking outta my ears (gotta find an ear plug! Can't afford to waste anymore brain cells...)

    Anyways, 1st thing that was clear to me is in order to get a good water quality, I need a good test kit so I ordered the TF-100 test kit .

    Now the questions :
    1. How does all the different chemicals tied together? I noticed that chlorine and cya are tied together. How about the pH, TA, and other stuff?
    There is also some correlation with pH and TA. You lower pH to lower TA, but you can raise pH without raising TA. Re-read The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry and that will explain things better than I.

    2. I am having the installer sink the pool two feet. This voids the warranty on collapsing inward but the pool store said as long as you have water inside the pool, this should not be a problem. Is there any instance where I need to remove all the water from the pool?
    Once the pool has been installed and the ground is stabilized you should not have a problem. Usually the only time you will need to remove all the water is to change the liner. Liners can be patched under water so unless you have an unpatchable hole you should not have to worry about a complete drain.

    3. Pool store includes a pool kit that is supposed to last for 3 weeks and this includes shocking the pool every week. I have read some advice that shocking every week is not necessary. I am also thinking of using the BBB method. Any advice on how to start using the BBB method in a new pool?
    BBB is all about knowing what is in your pool, and dosing it accordingly. The only thing I would not use are mineral paks and algaecides. Post what is in the kit before you use it and we will tell you if there is anything you should not put in the pool.
    The recommended levels
    chart and the The Pool Calculator will help you determine what you need to add to the pool.

    4. Do I have to cover the pool with solar blanket every time it is not used?
    No, that is a matter of personal preference. It is up to you and the kids to decide how warm you like the water.

    5. Pool store guy told me that I can run the pump at low speed 24hrs using only 3amps, is this true? Or will it be better to get a timer and have the pump go on/off for a specific time?
    That is a question beyond my pay grade! However I do know you can run a 2 speed pump on low 24/7 and still save $$ over running it on high for 8 hours a day. You only need to use high for vacuuming.

    I know I have more questions, I just can't remember them.
    This will all make more sense when you start maintaining the pool. Enjoy!
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Some additional comments on some of your questions in red.
    Quote Originally Posted by berserk
    1. How does all the different chemicals tied together? I noticed that chlorine and cya are tied together. How about the pH, TA, and other stuff?
    TA is a source of rising pH so a higher TA will often lead to the pH rising over time. So generally if you find the pH rising over time, you can lower the TA level to slow that down.

    5. Pool store guy told me that I can run the pump at low speed 24hrs using only 3amps, is this true? Or will it be better to get a timer and have the pump go on/off for a specific time?
    You generally can run the pump long enough so that it does one turnover of water. Low speed will save you a lot of money. To figure out how long to run the pump take your pool volume in gallons and divide it by your flow rate in gallons per minute and divide by 60 to get hours to run the pump. I have a variable-speed pump but even at a low speed I would only need to run it for around 10 hours for one turnover.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Welcome to TFP!

    I am new here too and inherited a pool when i brought my first house. I was in the same place a few weeks ago and it has already started making sense to me... In fact, with the help of this forum I think i already know more than a friend of mine who used to be a pool guy!

    My suggestion is to take it slow and dont buy any products which a pool store throws at you. Ask the forum and you will save a lot and will be maintaining the pool better.... I have ended up with a lifetimes supply of dichlor (powder chlorine with CYA in it) which has already made algae grow in my pool all because i listened to the pool store!

    Maintain the FC level and keep the algae away...
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    The two vital things to get a handle on are pH and FC. You will test for those daily (for now). FC is for sanitation so for the health of the family you keep that in range. Where that range is will depend on the CYA level. pH is for comfort in the normal ranges and can damage pool and equipment at extreme levels. pH is pretty easy to adjust. If pH is troubling, in that it is always out of whack, you may need to adjust TA for that drives the pH variations.

    That is the 3 sentence explanation of chemicals. Now go read the Pool School and print out the parts that make your head hurt for review later on.

    I suggest that you get the TF-100 kit and then start a log of all the test results you get, what you did and what you expected to happen from that. By the time you get bored with testing daily, you will have a very good idea of what your pool requires given all its particulars.

    I also suggest that you test your tap water, so that you know what you will be dealing with as the pool is filled up.

    Then do some phone shopping for basic products-- chlorine products ;6% bleach or 10% liquid shock, cal-hypo, dichlor, trichlor,. And other chemicals; stabilizer, baking soda, muriatic acid or dry acid, etc. Don't buy anything but know where you can get whatever you might need at a decent price and their store hours.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Take it one step at a time and feel free to ask questions here as they come.... You've certainly found the right place for help.

    You will have the hang of it in no time! Look forward to hearing more about your build and your experiences.
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist buy w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panels mix 2, TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Just an update.

    Pool guys was a month late in their install due to lot of rains in Windsor. Finally got mine installed and currently filling it up with water. Pool guys will be back once the water is at a certain level so they can install the filter and pump.

    Any suggestions on what I do next? When is a good time to test the water? After the whole thing is installed and running?

    Pool guy mentioned to keep an eye on kids toe nails so that it would not create a tear in the liner. Are there kits to repair the liner without removing the water?

    Any tips on what I should do?

    Thanks!
    18' X 33' X 54" AGP Morada 54" (16,325 gallons) (July 10, 2011)
    Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1-1/2hp (SP1593)
    Hayward Pro Series Top-Mount Sand Filter (S-210T)

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Test the fill water now, then you'll have a base to work from.

    Test after they put their stuff in, and watch them. If they want to put something in that you don't agree with, don't agree.

    You need chlorine and CYA. PH should be adjusted, also alkalinity. Salt, if you have a SWG. You know how that's done, pool school has it all. Use the calculator, it won't steer you wrong. Personally I'd be there micro managing every water component from the get go. I'd know my **** and wouldn't let them screw it up even if it meant sending them away.

    Test the water in front of them if needed. Keep records. You are ultimately the boss of your pool, you paid THEM so you get the last say.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    Quote Originally Posted by Suley

    My suggestion is to take it slow and dont buy any products which a pool store throws at you. Ask the forum and you will save a lot and will be maintaining the pool better.... I have ended up with a lifetimes supply of dichlor (powder chlorine with CYA in it) which has already made algae grow in my pool all because i listened to the pool store!

    Maintain the FC level and keep the algae away...
    Am fairly new to TFP as well and this is sound advice, two years of being pool shopped and hundreds of dollars later, I discovered this site. I spent a long time digesting all the info, and also had big headaches trying to digest it, but having got the TF 100 and listening to all the sound advice here I have a trouble free pool that has never looked so good and at such minimal cost I kick myself for not discovering TFP sooner.

    Buy only what you have to from the pool shop and after a few weeks it will all seem so simple you'll wonder why you ever worried.

    Good luck with the new pool and enjoy.
    12,000 Gln / 45,000 Ltr IG Freeform Fibreglass.
    Onga 1hp 2800 rpm single speed pump.
    T600 Sand filter nominal dia 647mm
    TF-100 (love it)

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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    I would keep an eye on whatever the pool installer puts in the pool paying particular attention to the CYA levels. My local pool store thinks a CYA level of 100-300 is OK, I keep my pool between 50-60. The only way to lower CYA once it get too high is to replace water. It would be a shame to have the pool installer set your CYA to 100 and then have to do a particial water change to correct it right off the bat.
    18x36 Vinyl In-ground w/roman ends 27,400G, Hayward 3/4hp with 300# sand filter. Hayward heat pump heater

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie having info overload

    In order to prevent the water from going green before they can hook up the equipment, put in one 96 ounce jug of plain unscented bleach every other day. Pour it in while slowly walking around the perimeter of the pool and brush the pool to mix it in well. That way if it is a week until they can hook everything up you won't end up with a green, nasty mess to clean up.
    TFP Moderator
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    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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