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Thread: Pool Store Has Given Up

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    Pool Store Has Given Up

    I do not know what to do or where to go and found this website. Almost $1,000 later and I still have a high concentration of copper in my pool. No one can figure out where the copper has come from or how to get rid of it. This began May 1st and we are at the same point we started. A sort of "glowing" bluish green tint to the pool water.


    FC 0
    TC .6
    CC
    pH 7.5
    Hardness 200
    Alk 166
    CY 91
    Copper .4
    Iron 0

    We have tried up and down with chlorine, alkalinity, calcium, United Chemical Pool Stain Treat (which did get rid of some stains) Stain and Scale, Jacks Magic Magenta (2 bottles), BioGuard Copper Out, and been treating the filter with Sparkle Up.
    Backwashing constantly and making daily trips to the pool store. Copper has fluctuated daily between 2-5.

    Today the finally told me they can not fix it and to live with it. My family is blond. We can not swim in that!

    Any suggestions will be appreciated. At this point between the cash for the chemicals and the pool being on 24/7 we are about out of option other then just to let it sit.

    *We are on the Frog System
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Welcome to TFP!

    You can thank your Frog system for the metals in your water. The sooner you stop using that mess, the better off you will be.

    Now, you can use a sequestrant to bind the metals in your pool water or you can change out water to remove the metals entirely.

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Is there another sequestrant other then the ones I listed? I have asked over and over about the Frog and they swear it is not it!! If I take that out what should I do about the chlorine?
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    Voodoo_Pool's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Without the Frog...use Bleach. I use the Clorox stuff from Costco. Liquid chlorine from your local pool store works too. Be sure to read Pool School. Great information. Power to the Pool Owner!...not to the pool store. Aloha!
    22,000 gallons "L" shaped with spillway spa; Hayward 4820 DE; IG Vinyl; 2000 ppm salt; 50 ppm Borates; liquid chlorine; Polaris w/ booster; TF-100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    The frog doesn't have any effect on the amount of chlorine that you need. It is a gimmick that many of us have dealt with (myself included) and spent money on before we figured out that they caused more problems than they fixed.

    Read Pool School for starters. There, you will learn about the various chemicals required for proper pool water management. It's really quite simple once you learn a few simple concepts. We will help you along the way with your questions as they arise.

    I would encourage you to get a good test kit for starter. http://www.tftestkits.net has the excellent TF-100 kit. They also have the Taylor K-2006 which is also good. Having a good test kit will save you so much money and eliminate so many problems down the road for you.

    So anyhoo, listen to us and we will get you going the right direction. You are already headed that way anyway since you found us. And remember, unlike the pool store, we have nothing to sell you. All we want is for people to learn how to manage their pools the correct way. No more, no less. Most of us do this because we enjoy seeing the lightbulb come on for other people who arrived here because they are tired of dropping $500 on chemicals they don't need every time the walk in the door of the pool store.

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfschlag
    Is there another sequestrant other then the ones I listed? I have asked over and over about the Frog and they swear it is not it!! If I take that out what should I do about the chlorine?
    It is the Frog adding copper. You can use bleach/liquid chlorine to sanitize your pool. It adds only chlorine and no unwanted byproducts. Clorox or good store brand 6% bleach is what many of us use.

    Now, is CY 91 suppose to be your CYA? If yes, then it is too high. Assuming that # is near correct, you need to do the water dance with water replacement to lower the CYA closer to recommended levels. Replacing some water should also help the copper level.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    The only reliable way to take the copper out of the pool is to replace water. You can use sequestrant to prevent the copper for causing new stains or turning hair green, but you need to keep adding more sequestrant regularly.

    It is nearly impossible to get copper stains off of vinyl.

    Nothing to do with your question, but you shouldn't ever let FC drop to zero. That is asking for trouble.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Yes the CY is the CYA. Forgot the A.

    I appreciate all your comments and replies. I just went out and took out the BacPac & Mineral Pack from the pool. We have been replacing much water from the heat and all the back washing which is what made me suspect the Frog. You would think that the copper level would have decreased some with so much water replacement.

    I will run to WalMart tonight to get bleach. Since it is Friday would someplace like Leslies (since it is a national chain) have a good test kit? I know some of the smaller stores only carry strips.

    I did have some copper staining on the liner and the United Chemical Pool Stain and Treat took it right off. Thank goodness. Though I could live with a stain more than the green water. At least I can swim with the stain.

    JasonLion you mention that the sequestrant will keep the glowing water from staining hair?

    Back to reading Pool School.
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Leslie's does have a couple of okay kits, but not a service type kit and that is the one that you need. You need the ability to test for FC, CC, CYA, pH, TA, and CH. The chlorine test that you need is the FAS-DPD test. It allows you to test for FC levels up to 50 ppm. www.tftestkits.net has two kits, the Taylor K-2006 and the TF-100. The TF-100 is the best value on the market. Shipping is lightning fast.

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    Voodoo_Pool's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    In your case, I would 'wait' the extra time and order a quality test kit form http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html as the 'savings' are immeasureable.

    You are on the right track! Keep going!
    22,000 gallons "L" shaped with spillway spa; Hayward 4820 DE; IG Vinyl; 2000 ppm salt; 50 ppm Borates; liquid chlorine; Polaris w/ booster; TF-100 Test Kit w/SpeedStir

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Yes, a good sequestrant will prevent any further staining of either the pool or hair. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff (regular), the Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and the Purple Stuff (SWG) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find many other brands with similar products, some of which are noticeably less expensive. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Okay, I am reading pool school now and do see some charts, but I am still unsure how much bleach to add. Should I add bleach and just keep going to the pool store for readings until I can get a kit in? Heading to order kit now.

    Thanks JasonLion on the hair info.
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    I suggest that you do water replacement to lower the CYA (which will also lower the copper) before you add the sequesterant (ie. $$).
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    I suggest that you do water replacement to lower the CYA (which will also lower the copper) before you add the sequesterant (ie. $$).
    All of it?
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfschlag
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    I suggest that you do water replacement to lower the CYA (which will also lower the copper) before you add the sequesterant (ie. $$).
    All of it?
    NO! Partial drain/Refill.

    Recommended levels for CYA is 30 to 50. Before you do any water replacements, even tho I feel sure CYA really is high, you should confirm the CYA test. If it is indeed around 90, you should try to get it down to at least 60 or 70, which is at least managable. The Pool Calculator (link in my sig) will tell you how much water to replace to achieve that.

    I just did not want you to add sequesterant and then have to do a partial drain/refill.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    The pool calculator says you need to replace 33% of your water to get your CYA to 60ish. The pool calcualtor takes all the guess work out of the amount of chems you need to add to balance your water. Here is the link http://www.poolcalculator.com/
    Get very familiar with it, the new test kit you are getting and the pool calculator go hand in hand.

    Edit: Also welcome to the site! You will now actually be able to enjoy your pool if you do the homework and listen to the pool gurus on this site.
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfschlag
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly
    I suggest that you do water replacement to lower the CYA (which will also lower the copper) before you add the sequesterant (ie. $$).
    All of it?
    NO! Partial drain/Refill.

    Recommended levels for CYA is 30 to 50. Before you do any water replacements, even tho I feel sure CYA really is high, you should confirm the CYA test. If it is indeed around 90, you should try to get it down to at least 60 or 70, which is at least managable. The Pool Calculator (link in my sig) will tell you how much water to replace to achieve that.

    I just did not want you to add sequesterant and then have to do a partial drain/refill.
    Hey I am blond!

    Thanks Butterfly!
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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane1
    The pool calculator says you need to replace 33% of your water to get your CYA to 60ish. The pool calcualtor takes all the guess work out of the amount of chems you need to add to balance your water. Here is the link http://www.poolcalculator.com/
    Get every familiar with it the new test kit you are getting and the pool calculator go hand in hand.
    I was just playing with that but THANKS! for telling me the %. This is all so new. I am so mad at my pool store for costing me so much money and for listening to them!
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfschlag

    We have been replacing much water from the heat and all the back washing which is what made me suspect the Frog. You would think that the copper level would have decreased some with so much water replacement.

    I
    The heat doesn't affect your metal content (or CYA or Salt, and probably little if any effect on pH, phosphates, CH, TA except hard water)
    As water evaporates, it normally evaporates as H2O, and leaves everything else behind- this is the whole reason distillation works!
    As you replace water, you're just adding the water that evaporated- if anything, your fill water is adding additional stuff...
    in places with hard water, the fill WILL over time increase TA and maybe CH, since you add more everytime you top off and none gets filtered...

    The backwashing and splashout, on the otherhand, removes a little of everything with the water, so overtime will reduce copper (provided your fill doesn't have copper in it!)
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  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Pool Store Has Given Up

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfschlag
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane1
    The pool calculator says you need to replace 33% of your water to get your CYA to 60ish. The pool calcualtor takes all the guess work out of the amount of chems you need to add to balance your water. Here is the link http://www.poolcalculator.com/
    Get every familiar with it the new test kit you are getting and the pool calculator go hand in hand.
    I was just playing with that but THANKS! for telling me the %. This is all so new. I am so mad at my pool store for costing me so much money and for listening to them!
    I found this site during my pool cunstruction so, I read and absorbed as much as I could and luckily never got ripped by the pool store. Now you can spend your money on cool pool toys!
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