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Thread: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

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    Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Hi everyone,

    This is Brad and Melissa, and here is our story. We bought a house with a pool (our first) in a suburb of Minneapolis in January, a great time to buy a house with a pool in Minnesota, right? This house had been in foreclosure, and the pool was not closed down properly last year, so we had/have dark green water with a lot of leaves in the bottom (scooping out some more every day). We can barely see the bottom of the shallow end. The pool is a 25,000 gallon (or so) inground vinyl pool with Hayward sand filter. We started out using a pool company, so the pump, filter, and lines are all in working order.


    They tested our pool and gave us instructions of what to do. Here are the test results and instructions:

    Tested 5/31/11
    TC 0
    FC 0
    pH 7.6
    TA 95
    CH 125
    CYA 0
    Green Algae

    Pool company Recommendations:
    1. Algae Shock - 3 lb Proteam Zip Chlor (super chlorination)
    2. They said that ideal TA is 120, use 9lb of Proteam Alkalinity Up
    3. Pool company says CH is 125, ideal is 250. Add 31 lbs of Proteam Calcium Up.
    4. Stabilizer is 0, ideal is 50. Add 10.5 lbs Proteam UV Shield.
    They recommend maintaining FC at 1-3ppm.


    Since the prices were outrageous, we decided to have a friend help us get supplies (and they told us what we "need") at the discount store and started adding to the pool. On 6/1 we added:

    4 lb of HTH Stabilizer (CYA)
    8 lb of Calcium Hypochlorite

    We have also opened a 40 lb bucket of of 3" Trichloro tablets, and have 3 in each of our 2 skimmers (6 total). The pump has been running 24 hr/day since 6/1.

    After all of this, I decided to start googling (I know, I should have googled first!), found TFP, Signed up to TFP yesterday, ordered our TF-100 (should arrive Sat or Mon). I will be following the BBB method. I'd like to start treating the pool over this weekend, and I should be able to get 3-4 water samples done by the local company if our kit doesn't arrive on Saturday.

    We have a ton of questions (of course!), but I'd like to start out with a few:

    1. I'd like to know if I can use up our 40 lbs of opened Trichloro bucket and not let it go to waste ($90 bucket - hope I can use it). Or should I just scrap them and go with whatever the Pool Calculator recommends?
    2. CYA was added on 6/1, if I re-test Saturday morning will I get an accurate reading of CYA so I can calculate the target FC level?
    3. Our sand filter ran at 15psi after backwash, it's running at 28 now and pool company said we don't need to backwash again until 35. Should I go by the their statement or backwash after an increase of 8-10 psi per the Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters page? Should I replace the sand in our filter right away since we don't know how old it is? Does sand go bad?
    4. Leaves and debris in the pool - do we shock first so we can see the bottom and then get out the leaves? Or try to get out all the leaves before starting the shock process? Do leaves contribute to more algae growth?
    5. Last - for brushing during shock process, do we need to buy a long handled brush that reaches to the middle of the deep end (I don't know anything about brushes)?

    That should be enough questions for now, I'll add more later. I look forward to getting this thing all ready to go - and I'll try to post some pictures on Friday. If more information is needed please let me know!

    Thanks,
    Brad
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    1. I'd like to know if I can use up our 40 lbs of opened Trichloro bucket and not let it go to waste ($90 bucket - hope I can use it). Or should I just scrap them and go with whatever the Pool Calculator recommends? They will not go to waste but I would suggest not using them until you get your water balanced and clear. They don't go bad, either, so just hang on to them for a bit.

    2. CYA was added on 6/1, if I re-test Saturday morning will I get an accurate reading of CYA so I can calculate the target FC level? Probably, but not for sure. Did you calculate the dosage? 4 lbs should get you to about 20ppm in a 25k pool. That is at the low end of what the test can detect. I would suggest you add another 4 lbs of stabilizer (CYA) and then you are safe to assume you have 40ppm in the pool even if it fails to show on the test for a while

    3. Our sand filter ran at 15psi after backwash, it's running at 28 now and pool company said we don't need to backwash again until 35. Should I go by the their statement or backwash after an increase of 8-10 psi per the Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters page? Should I replace the sand in our filter right away since we don't know how old it is? Does sand go bad? Backwash now. The pool company is nuts and you are wasting electricity. 35psi indicates almost a complete stoppage of flow. Replacing the sand is not necessary.

    4. Leaves and debris in the pool - do we shock first so we can see the bottom and then get out the leaves? Or try to get out all the leaves before starting the shock process? Do leaves contribute to more algae growth? Get out everything you possible can before you shcok and then continue to remove as much as you can while you shock. ANY organics in your pool will consume all your chlorine.

    5. Last - for brushing during shock process, do we need to buy a long handled brush that reaches to the middle of the deep end (I don't know anything about brushes)? Absolutely buy a brush that will reach the entire pool floor easily. Clearing your pool will require mechanical action (brushing, removal, etc) as well as a lot of chlorine.

    That should be enough questions for now, I'll add more later. I look forward to getting this thing all ready to go - and I'll try to post some pictures on Friday. If more information is needed please let me know!

    Focus for now on clearing your pool. I know you have lot's of other questions but clearing that pool should take your entire attention. Please post complete test results as soon as your kit arrives. Prior to that,stock up on Clorox only.....it's the best thing you can put in your pool. If you purchased 20 large jugs, it would not be too much.

    read How to "Shock your Pool" up in Pool School. It's a very important step in getting your pool clear.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelakeside

    We have a ton of questions (of course!), but I'd like to start out with a few:

    1. I'd like to know if I can use up our 40 lbs of opened Trichloro bucket and not let it go to waste ($90 bucket - hope I can use it). Or should I just scrap them and go with whatever the Pool Calculator recommends?
    You should stop using the tabs now. Between the CYA & cal-hypo you have added between 40 & 50 CYA, which is a good level. Save the tabs for vacations. They last a long, long time.

    2. CYA was added on 6/1, if I re-test Saturday morning will I get an accurate reading of CYA so I can calculate the target FC level?
    Probably. I suggest you assume that you have 50 CYA now for calculating FC/shock levels.

    3. Our sand filter ran at 15psi after backwash, it's running at 28 now and pool company said we don't need to backwash again until 35. Should I go by the their statement or backwash after an increase of 8-10 psi per the Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters page? Should I replace the sand in our filter right away since we don't know how old it is? Does sand go bad?
    Backwash now. When psi rises about 8, backwash. See the manual for your filter. Pool store is wrong.

    4. Leaves and debris in the pool - do we shock first so we can see the bottom and then get out the leaves? Or try to get out all the leaves before starting the shock process? Do leaves contribute to more algae growth?
    Scoop out everything you can before shocking. Else, the leaves and junk will eat up all the chlorine.

    5. Last - for brushing during shock process, do we need to buy a long handled brush that reaches to the middle of the deep end (I don't know anything about brushes)?
    You need a long handled pole to use the leaf net and to use the brush. I have one good long pole ( and one I do not like at all) so I just change attachments on my good pole. See Pool School for a virtual encyclopedia of pool stuff. Always get quality pool tools. The cheap stuff will only make you mad, well, me anyway

    That should be enough questions for now, I'll add more later. I look forward to getting this thing all ready to go - and I'll try to post some pictures on Friday. If more information is needed please let me know!

    Welcome to TFP

    Thanks,
    Brad
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    By the attitude that you have with the situation you are in it is obvious you will be up and running in no time. The experts here at TFP are a great help. When you get your test kit make sure you test daily at first to get a feel for your pool. Over time you will be able to test every two or three days because you know how the pool reacts.

    Good luck and welcome to TFP!
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    The pool pole needs to be really good! I have 3- one 6 ft that I use as much as I can, then the telescoping ones...
    Those things drive me nuts! The nut used to tighten the sections so they don't slide apart are kind of weak; I've broken several, which is why I have the extra pole; can't find anywhere to get replacement parts... I want a $2-3 dollar collar, not another $20 pole!
    24ft x 52in AGP 18000 gal
    sand filter, 200#,1.5 hp single speed pump
    Wood deck (still in progress...)

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Glad you found TFP as soon as you did and you jumped right in asking questions and getting started. The test kit will be your best friend.. until you get it, keep doing what you're doing. Remove that debris and show that algae who's boss!
    Indiana, ABG 24'x52" Galveston by Blue Cascade (Craigslist buy w/part of deck included), 13,500 gallons, Intex SWG, solar panels mix 2, TF-100 test kit.

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Ok, we ran a backwash this morning, back down to 15 psi. I've turned off the filter for now as I'm guessing it won't do much until we start the shock process.

    Just so I understand, should I assume we have 20ppm CYA (duraleigh's reply) due to the 64 oz of CYA added or 40-50 (butterfly's reply) due to CYA and cal-hypo? Does the cal hypo increase CYA also, or just FC and CH? In checking the Chlorine CYA chart, it shows to bring FC to 10 at a CYA level of 20 and FC to 20 at a CYA level of 50. If I use 40-50 as my CYA and find out next week CYA is not that high, will it cause issues if I bring my shock FC to 16-20 (is it dangerous to overchlorinate during shock process)?

    Thanks again for all the help!
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    You have received top-notch advice already. I just wanted to say welcome to TFP!

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Cal Hypo increases calcium, not CYA.

    It is not dangerous to overchlorinate. You'll see a higher number for mustard algae, even at that high level it's still not going to hurt your pool. Just don't go crazy! Since you have a vinyl pool, you can lighten the pattern on the liner if you go too nuts.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Just so I understand, should I assume we have 20ppm CYA (duraleigh's reply) due to the 64 oz of CYA added or 40-50 (butterfly's reply) due to CYA and cal-hypo?
    Assume 20.......maybe 30 because of the pucks...take them out as BF suggested....they'll dry right out and then you can put 'em back in the bucket.

    Not speaking for her, but I'm pretty sure BF saw that as di-chlor rather than Calhypo since di-chlor is more common for that application.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Just be really careful as to where you set those tablets to dry them out. Don't set them on something that you don't want bleached.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelakeside
    Just so I understand, should I assume we have 20ppm CYA (duraleigh's reply) due to the 64 oz of CYA added or 40-50 (butterfly's reply) due to CYA and cal-hypo
    I sorry

    Yes, follow Dave's CYA estimate.


    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Not speaking for her, but I'm pretty sure BF saw that as di-chlor rather than Calhypo since di-chlor is more common for that application.
    Thanks Dave, you are right.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Hi all,

    Went to the pool store to get a leaf attachment for our pole and a piece for our vacuum, had a water test done:

    TC 0
    FC 0
    pH 7.8 (up from 7.6 on 5/31)
    TA 175 (up from 95 on 5/31)
    CH 150
    CYA 25 (it registered already)

    Nothing has been added besides the items listed in my original post. The trichlor has been removed from my skimmers and the pump/filter are off.

    I'm going to use an estimate of 30 as my CYA level and shoot for a chlorine level of 16ppm - calculator says I need 4 gallons of the 10% solution. I'm going to start the shock process tomorrow, found liquid chlorine at Ace for $2.79 for 128 oz of 10%. That is cheaper than 182 oz of 6% bleach at Walmart for $2.54 right? Is it a straight calculation of $2.79/(.1 x 128) = $0.218 versus $2.54/(.06 x 182)= $0.233?

    Should I worry about the higher TA and pH yet? Or does that come after the shock process is over?

    Since I may not receive my test kit until Monday, should I just go to the pool store twice a day to get it tested or buy a kit from Walmart to monitor Chlorine levels (I'd really like to start this this weekend while I have time)?
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    You mention you turned off the pump, make sure it's running when you add your Muriatic Acid. pH should be fixed before shocking.

    Your estimate of CYA of 30 is a good idea.

    A WalMart or Leslie's test kit won't register high enough to monitor the shock process. You should go ahead and get some bleach in there now though.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    Got my TF-100 today! It's like Christmas in June

    I'll be able to test this afternoon, then the algae is mine...
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    About those pucks... should you find yourself in a situation where your PH is at the high end of the range and your CYA is a little low (possibly due to backwashes), then you could break out those pucks back out for a little while. I have a bucket I bought prior to finding this site about 4 years ago. They definitely come in handy when I am away on vacation.
    20k gal, IG Vinyl, IntelliFlo VF Pump, 60 GPM sand filter, Jandy Aquapure Ei 35, 2 skimmers, one main drain, two returns, Dolphin Diagnostic cleaning robot, Taylor K-2006 test kit

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    So here we are, 5 days into shocking. The water has gone from a Black/Green, to Anti-freeze Green, to dull Gray/Aqua, now is Bluish! We still cannot see the bottom, but progress is being made! We are keeping our FC around 20, even though CYA is around 20-30.

    Found a great deal on 5.25% bleach today - $0.99 per gallon. Picked up 33 gallons (all they had - the perfect amount to fit in our trunk!). While in line at the checkout, the cashier laughed, and the nice little old lady behind me asked:

    "What is all that bleach for?"
    "Our pool"
    "What?"
    "Our swimming pool"
    "What?"
    "We have a swimming pool, it is to keep it clean"
    "Really? Do you have any kids? You don't let them swim in it with bleach in it do you?"
    I chuckled, didn't explain, let her think we are melting the skin off the neighborhood kids this summer

    Thanks,
    Brad
    25000, IG, Vinyl with Hayward S-240 series Sand Filter, Emerson 1081 Pool Motor, Hayward H250 Heater.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Brand Newbie - Story and questions

    There isn't any point in keeping the FC level that high at this point, it is just more work and more expensive. FC at 12 to 15 will be fine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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