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Thread: RANT!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    RANT!

    So, I hesitated on whether-or-not to post this to the water bucket, or to CHEM201... Because I'm going to RANT, as well as show some stuff to get some other "pros" thoughts an inputs...

    Last week, I get a call from a guy who want's me to care for his pool - he's not happy with the pool guy he has now. I always give a full water and site analysis for free, so I go over and look at the pool.

    FC - 2ppm
    CYA - 50ppm
    pH - My Phenol red turns purple (very high)
    T/A - 330ppm (not a typo)
    Ca - ~300ppm.
    Water condition - not "Krystal" clear... a little haze, nothing too bad.
    Plaster condition - Dark plaster, covered with patches of Mustard algae, but no "whiting" of the plaster anywhere... I looked for this because the scale on the spa spill-over was measurably thick... beautiful cobalt tiles you could barely see the color of under the whitish/tannish calcium build-up literally covering the 4'x6' flat spill over (sorry, no pictures - will get some later).

    Oh - and the '260 is just spinning circles in the deep end (gears are stripped), so there's a patch about 8' in diameter in the deep-end that looks awesome, and the rest of the pool looks like crud.

    So, I get a call on late Saturday, telling me that he let the prior pool-guy go and wants me to start this Friday. I always clarify that I need to "bring-on-line" the pool, before I take care of it (adjust TA, and whatever else needs addressed prior to putting it "On the Route").

    So, I went over there today to start adjusting the TA and up the FC to kill the Mustard algae... and there's white crud all over the bottom of the pool??? (yes, he has a DE filter...)

    Here's a few sample pictures... pay close attention to the spa picture (the colors are correct):



    and the spa...


    (anyone notice anything, other than what appears to be a layer of DE all over the bottom of the spa... I didn't, not at first)

    I call him up, and ask him what's going on - this wasn't here last week. He tells me that before he fired the previous pool guy, he let him work on the pool on Saturday to "clean the filter" and do some other "things" to address the algae.

    ..."things?"

    "like what kind of things????" Doesn't know.

    I'm a little worried, because I'm thinking that the guy jacked-up the DE filter when he serviced it... Best way to test this, is start draining down the spa into the pool through the filter, and see if any of the DE comes out the pool returns.

    I get the spa almost drained and not a single "puff" comes out the returns. Wierd. How did this guy get DE all over the bottom of the pool? It "poofed" like DE does when I brushed the MA off the floor and walls... I'm getting stumped here. How did this happen? But then I start noticing that the whitish marks on the steps - marks I didn't notice last week - aren't brushing off (sorry, didn't take a picture, but you can kind of see it above under the "dust").

    Then, I walk over to the spa, and can't believe my eyes... Yes, this picture is color correct:


    Like I said, I'm going to rant... Some people have no business taking care of their own pools, let-alone someone elses (and getting paid for it).
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
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    Re: RANT!

    Wow! So I am guessing that the pool service before did little more than probably empty skimmers and add tablets? What a shame.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: RANT!

    Notice the color of the "white" slurry that's left in the spa... it's not white! It's friggen TURQUOISE!
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  4. Back To Top    #4
    dattia's Avatar
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    Re: RANT!

    Well... just as some people shouldn't be taking care of pools, I guess others shouldn't venture into the Chemistry Forum. I have been sitting here trying to figure out what that pool guy put in there to dissolve all that pretty blue paint. D'uh!
    27' round AG
    Hayward Matrix 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward S210T Sand Filter

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: RANT!

    So what'd he do? Try to loosen the scale by taking a grinder to the plaster?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: RANT!

    There was no scale anywhere IN the pool - none visible at least, just on the over-sized flat area of the spill-over. When I first saw it, I thought it was DE based on what the customer said... it might still be. But why it is BLUE is beyond me - I didn't test for copper, but I'm 99% sure it is because of the turquoise-ness (new word???).

    And would it precipitate onto DE? I backwashed the filter, and if it was serviced yesterday, I doubt it as the DE slurry in the BW was tannish in color, with a very heavy hint of lime in it (there is no green algae anywhere in the pool).

    I'll be bringing over some Jack's Pink stuff tomorrow...
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  7. Back To Top    #7
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: RANT!

    The water is strongly over saturated in calcium, right at the edge of calcium scaling if it hasn't started scaling already. It wouldn't take much to start precipitating calcium, say the spa jets running for a little while driving up the PH. Calcium could precipitate out as a dust quite rapidly if the conditions were just right.

    If we assume a copper based algaecide was added recently, the copper could precipitate along with the calcium, giving you any of several colors, including something exactly like what we see in the spa.

    The same thing could have happened on a smaller scale in the pool when the spa was turned off and the high PH water from the spa started mixing back into the pool, with the dust getting moved around more and depositing based on currents instead of depositing everywhere.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: RANT!

    I would agree with you almost 100% - the CSI in this thing is way out of whack... but to precip Ca as a powdery DE-like dust instead of a scale? And, the Ca itself isn't ungodley high...

    pH and T/A adjustment is underway. Will test Ca again next time I'm there. If its measurably down, We'll know that's what it was... I swear it looks like DE...
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: RANT!

    If you can collect some of the dust, you can add a drop of muriatic acid and see if it foams up.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: RANT!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    If you can collect some of the dust, you can add a drop of muriatic acid and see if it foams up.
    I will do that tomorrow... let you know the results.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: RANT!

    Those main drain grates should be changed to the new compliant grates.

    I think that if there is a heater, it is probably in bad shape.

    You can't assume that the current chemical numbers are typical of the way that the pool was kept. It is likely that the pool person recently tried to correct problems that were brought to their attention and recently added a bunch of chemicals to try to get things back in line.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: RANT!

    While i would generally give the benefit of the doubt to the prior pool-guy, I know of no way to properly keep a pool at a pH of "purple" and a T/A of 330... that, and the scale-build-up on the water spill-over was crustifiying, and the sweep was broke and just left to spin in the deep end and had been for quite some time.

    I'm pretty sure I know the "company" - I've gotten several pools from his customers over the last two years (and leave it there).

    And I'd replace the grates, but with the current recall...

    - Jeff
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: RANT!

    To be clear, I was not trying to say that the prior person was doing a good job. It's obvious that they weren't. I was just saying that they probably recently tried to correct chemical imbalances and probably overcorrected.

    Either way, it is unlikely that you would be able to obtain accurate chemistry records.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: RANT!

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    To be clear, I was not trying to say that the prior person was doing a good job. It's obvious that they weren't. I was just saying that they probably recently tried to correct chemical imbalances and probably overcorrected.

    Either way, it is unlikely that you would be able to obtain accurate chemistry records.
    No worries - I do know that the customer had been unhappy for some time - dingy water, MA for quite a while. I know the guy was there last Tuesday before I showed up (says the customer), and the FC was ~2ppm... cleaner spinning in circles... pH = "purple", MA everywhere (obviously not brushed).

    It just frustrates me that there's guys running around with pool-poles sticking out of their truck, when they really don't understand what they are doing - then charge cheap rates thinking, "this is the easiest job in the world"... all the while screwing up pool-after-pool.

    I got a job two weeks ago where the same pool guy had been caring for the customer's pool for 4 years while the customer rented out the home... and has since moved back. Ca was almost 800 (tap here is 190-220), pH was 8.0+, scale everywhere, MA everywhere. Grime IN the scale. We wound-up acid washing that one and just finished adjusting the T/A today. It looks stunning now.

    Funny part is, his wife is a real negotiator, trying to knock-off $100 here (on the wash), on parts, and on the monthly service. When I wouldn't budge on the service price, and she kept saying I was $25/month more than their previous service, her husband looked at her right in front of me and finally said, "Well, you see what you get for $25/month less..." (pointing to the pool pre-wash). What's even funnier, is I looked him straight in the eye, with a grin on my face, and said, "I bet you take her car shopping."

    His reply, "You should have seen the deal she got on her Infinity..."
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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