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Thread: Floc HELP

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    Floc HELP

    New to pools. Bought a house and it came with it. Above ground 18 ' round 4 ft deep. Sand filter.
    CYA 50
    TC 1.3
    FC 0
    pH 7.4
    TA 104
    TH 180
    We had already added 5 dichlor shocks 1/2 gal murianic acid and 6lbs of Baking Soda to even get these results.
    Our problem is levels don't seem terrible, but the swamp along with red worms hasn't changed much. The color is now a white gray green though. But very opaque. After the results from the pool store above...we did what we were told and added another 3 dichlor shocks and 1/2 bottle of floc. No change. I will test with our 4 test tester today, but how much bleach would I need for an actual shock. Is it cheaper to use the bleach? Any other suggestions. Do I just get the chemical tests right and wait (a long time). Doesn't seem like a fun pool for Memorial Weekend.
    Thanks for you help in advance.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Your test kit isn't good enough to test at shock level for a CYA of 50. At a CYA of 50 your shock level is 20ppm. Your kit can probably read either 5 or 10 ppm.

    To get to 20ppm from zero you need to add 282oz of bleach or 1.5 large (182oz) jugs. The problem is you won't be able to test where you're at so you know how much to add to keep it there.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    I'd stop with the dichlor--------you already have nuff CYA. Go to liquid bleach. Your white gray opaqueness is probably dead algae that has to be filtered out. Run pump/filter 24/7 and backwash as pressure rises. Getting to you shock level for your CYA is not a problem......the ability to test it and KEEP it there is. Getting there once ain't gonna do you. Read shocking your pool in pool school. Check into one of the 2 test kits recommended there.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: Floc HELP

    I ordered the TF-100. In the mean time...The tests I have Show no chlorine. Should I continue to shock or just wait till my new kit comes in. Pump is going to be on now 24/7 (until the thunder comes). then it may go off for a short period. pH and TA are within acceptable levels. OCO for chlorine is all I have available for testing right now. I just don't want to go backwards with progress while waiting for the kit. Can I over shock it?
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    It sounds like you are making progress, so you might as well continue. You have been using dichlor, which raises CYA, which makes things more complicated. If I followed your comments correctly, you have used 3 lbs of dichlor since taking the CYA reading? If so, your current CYA level is around 75, which means that shock level is closer to 28 or 30.

    You can use the OTO test with dilution if you have some chlorine free water available (normally distilled water). Mix one part of pool water with four equal parts of chlorine free water, test that, and multiply the result by 5. That won't be at all precise, but it should be enough to get you through until your test kit comes.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Tried to vacuum today. Dirty water returned to pool. Hoses are in proper position. Should I continue vacuuming? Is there something wrong with my Hayward Sand filter? Do I continue the 24/7 filtering? Very confused. And tired of flocculant water
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Can you open up the top of the sand filter and inspect the laterals or the gasket? if something is out of place or broken - sand can get back in the pool. Did you rinse after backwashing or did it happen the entire time?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: Floc HELP

    we may be able to open it tomorrow. I will get help from larger hands . We will have to empty all 150lbs of sand to inspect the laterals (right). I did check the water coming back from the return and I did not feel any grit from sand. We did backwash before, did not rinse, but it only seemed to happen in certain areas of the pool. i guess when we found the gunk under the water. Don't really know what I am vacuuming up I can't see more than 4 inches from the top of the water.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    Re: Floc HELP

    Turned on the pump/filter for the night just to see what happens.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    adoptolderkids's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Are you vacuuming to waste?

    I'm fighting the same battle - I can't see what or where I need to vacuum because the water is too murky. It's a pain, that's for sure.

    Good luck!
    Holly
    12K gal above-ground, sand filter in Rochester, NY

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    Re: Floc HELP

    I would not use any more floc. One of the problems with floc that it requires you to shut off the circulation for a day or two which then allows the algae to bloom and your in worse shape than you were before. Shocking is a process that works best when you can keep the FC at shock levels. Keep on doing what you are doing and when you get your test set - shock and then as soon as you can after a half hour test again. If FC has gone down then use the pool calculator to determine how much it will take to bring it back to shock. Even if it is down only 1 or 2 ppms. You will find that the time before the level drops will lengthen as the shocking works.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Floc HELP

    all the junk is just floating around. Should I help the circulation by "stirring" the pool? Will it help? Can't wait for my kit.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Just run the pump 24/7 and backwash/clean the filter as needed. The pump will do all the stirring that is required.

    If debris accumulates on the floor of the pool then vacuum it up.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    JesseWV's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by fourofsmith
    Tried to vacuum today. Dirty water returned to pool. Hoses are in proper position. Should I continue vacuuming? Is there something wrong with my Hayward Sand filter? Do I continue the 24/7 filtering? Very confused. And tired of flocculant water
    I second what frustratedpoolmom said. You need to make sure your equipment is working 100%. Open the top of your multiport to check the the spoke gasket. It should have no cracks or deterioration. If it does, you can get a new one for around $8 plus shipping. If it looks fine I'd take the opportunity to put some silicone lubricant on it while you're in there.

    If the gasket is in good shape one way or the other, next you'll need to check the sand and plumbing inside. Expect for all of this to take at least a few hours. Find something to put all the sand in. I used a small kiddie pool. Then use a large plastic cup to start scooping the sand out. Use care when getting near the bottom because thats where the laterals are. When putting the sand back in I recommend filling with water until the laterals are covered to help protect them from the falling sand.

    I was having the same dirty water coming back in while vacuuming. Last week I put in a new gasket thinking that would fix my poor filtration but it didn't. I ended up taking the sand filter apart and it turns out the main PVC pipe running up to the valve inside the filter was broken. This didn't allow any water to be drawn from the bottom of the sand essentially making my filter only recirculate the water.
    16k gal, 28'x3.5', Vinyl A/G, 1hp Pentair Dynamo 2-speed Pump, Hayward S160T Sand Filter, Intermatic HB800RCL Digital Timer, Intex 8110 SWG, TF-100 Test Kit, SpeedStir Author: Jesse's Graphical Pool Testing Log

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    Re: Floc HELP

    I suspect you will need to do what FrustratedPoolMom and Jesse suggest, but first I would do a good long backwash and then rinse before I went to all the time and trouble to take the filter apart. If you have already backwashed and you are still getting dirty water back in then I would go ahead and take it apart as Jesse suggests.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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    Re: Floc HELP

    Adoptolderkids and frustratedpoolmom (love those names). I did backwash and rinse many times, but same thing. I did find at the end of my backwash hose...some sand. Does this mean something different or is that normal. Man hands will be helping me tomorrow or later today to open it up and check it out. Is it a good idea to go ahead and order laterals just to have them on hand?
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    Re: Floc HELP

    Okay....I now need help finding sand filter parts for an Esther Williams 1800 High Rate Sand Filter. I don't see it on the Hayward site. Just looking in advance. Is there any way to find old parts. The filter is only 9 yrs old.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    adoptolderkids's Avatar
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    Re: Floc HELP

    I wouldn't order anything until you know for sure. You could end up paying money for things you don't need. Save your cash for bleach - that's where all my money is going to!

    Holly
    12K gal above-ground, sand filter in Rochester, NY

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Floc HELP

    Pulled the sand filter apart Supper easy. I could have done it by myself. Sand is pretty nasty. So we are replacing it. Laterals and PVC look good. So we will put it back together tomorrow and start again. We will borrow a friend's test kit and start the BBB method as well. Any idea where to find Borax. It's not in our grocery or Walmart in the laundry cleaning area locally. Will Lowe's have it? I am hoping they have the sand.
    Doughboy Above ground 7600 gallons, Hayward sand filter with 1 hp pump, Virginia Mountains

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    Re: Floc HELP

    Look for 20 Mule Team on the laundry shelves. If you can't find 20 Mule Team then there are some places online that sell borates. Perhaps someone else can give you some links. I consider Borax the icing on the cake. It is really not necessary to be successful. What you need is Chlorine, Muratic Acid or Baking Soda, some CYA and you can clear your pool and keep it clear. Salt and borax are extras that will make the water feel better and cushion the ph swings.
    Larry in Texas

    Above ground 7,700 gallons, 19 inch sand filter ( 2 sq. ft.), Liquidator, and a WaterWay Hi-Flo Pump with an A.O. Smith 1 hp SF 1.0 motor.

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