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Thread: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

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    HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    Ok I've been fighting this for 3 weeks now. (Quick background. I had everything in check but I forgot about adding Muratic acid to lower my PH for about 2 weeks and that's all it took.)

    I've taken my water to a pool store and EVERYTHING is in check and perfect EXCEPT for my PH which is at 8.0 and my Chlorine which is at 4ppm. I've been adding Muratic Acid about 1/4 of a gallon every other day for 3 weeks not and my PH hasn't moved 1 bit. My chlorine is still at 4!!! I can see damage being down to my sky blue plaster which is little patches of what looks like a dirty spot.
    So a pool tech said the only way to fix this is to pump out "some" of my water and add new water. Another Pool tech is telling me just continue to add Muratic Acid. I've done the muratic acid deal and now am faced with pumping out some of the water, but I wanted to check with all you guys since you've been a GREAT help in the past.

    Hope I can find something soon and I'd hate to have other issues such as Algae once the weather gets warmer.

    Take care,

    Mike
    20,000 gallon free form plaster pool built in 2001. Pentair Intelliflo pump, Pentair Quad 80 DE Filter, Pentair 40k gallon salt chlorinator, Pentair Easy Touch 8 control panel, Fafco Solar water heater with 7 (4'x12') panels.

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    Join Date
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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    Please post a set of test results. Include FC, CC, pH, TA, CYA, and CH. Also, please post your pool and equipment specs in your signature line so that we can all see what you have.

    Please order a high quality test kit from www.tftestkits.net. Pool store tests are usually not very accurate and I would hate for you to think that there is a problem when there may infact be very little that is wrong, simply because of the results that you got from the pool store.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    It would help a great deal if you posted a full set of water test results.

    The short term solution to high PH is to add more acid. If you add enough acid, the PH will go down. Longer term you need to figure out why the PH is going up in the first place.

    Is it a problem that chlorine is at 4?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    I can't find the paper work I got from the pool store on all my levels, but I can tell you everything was in balance except for my PH and Chlorine being a little high. My chlorine is at 4-5ppm however if I've read correctly in the past if PH is high, then chlorine is ineffective and your water can still turn green even if it shows high chlorine levels??? So it's almost like a false reading. I haven't added any chlorine in about 3 weeks either. I took the floater out as soon as I saw the problem. Just so you know since I don't have the salt generator in yet, I used 1 chlorine tablet in a floater. I have since taken out the floater and still have problems.
    I've updated my signature to show all equipment etc...
    20,000 gallon free form plaster pool built in 2001. Pentair Intelliflo pump, Pentair Quad 80 DE Filter, Pentair 40k gallon salt chlorinator, Pentair Easy Touch 8 control panel, Fafco Solar water heater with 7 (4'x12') panels.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    As long as you have some CYA in the water, chlorine is very nearly just as effective at any reasonable PH. So I wouldn't worry about that.

    It is unusual that your chlorine level isn't coming down. That seems unlikely.

    What the pool store calls good levels and what we call good levels are often very very different things.

    Do you have fresh plaster? Fresh plaster raises the PH very quickly for the first three or four weeks, and more slowly for up to a year.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    It's the original plaster from 2001 when it was built. Nothing has changed. The only thing I really messed up was not watching the PH and in 3 weeks I've added about 4 gallons of MA and nothing it's stuck at 8 on my tests and when I take it to the pool store they read the same. I'm not worried to much about the chlorine, but I am worried about the PH especially since I see patches of what looks like dirty plaster in my pool> Pool tech said it was because of high PH damaging plaster slowly?
    I just don't know what else to do except for continue adding MA, but how much will I spend and will it work or damage my pool more by not getting it under control.

    Thanks for everyone's help so far.

    MIKE
    20,000 gallon free form plaster pool built in 2001. Pentair Intelliflo pump, Pentair Quad 80 DE Filter, Pentair 40k gallon salt chlorinator, Pentair Easy Touch 8 control panel, Fafco Solar water heater with 7 (4'x12') panels.

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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    Ok I found my results from last week. Hope this helps you guys help me

    FAC= 4
    TAC= 4
    SALT= 3300
    CH= 300
    CYA= 30
    TA= 100
    PH= 8.0
    ACID DEMAND= 2
    COPPER= 0
    IRON= 0
    PHOSPHATES= 200

    THANKS!
    20,000 gallon free form plaster pool built in 2001. Pentair Intelliflo pump, Pentair Quad 80 DE Filter, Pentair 40k gallon salt chlorinator, Pentair Easy Touch 8 control panel, Fafco Solar water heater with 7 (4'x12') panels.

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    Join Date
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    Re: HELP PLEASE!!! Cannot lower PH and Chlorine levels!!!

    One important thing that I have learned since coming to TFP myself is that muriatic acid has a very predictable action in any pool. This means that as long as you are getting accurate test results with regard to pH and you have calculated your pool volume in gallons with good accuracy, adding the proper amount of acid all at once will always, without fail, lower the pH to the level that you want to lower it to. Now, whether or not the pH stays there and for how long is a totally different thing because pH rises for many different reasons. One of the main reasons that pH rises is from running a SWCG, which you have.

    There are some things that you can do to lower the acid demand over time. One of these things is by lowering your TA. This is done by acid additions. In many cases, my own included, the TA of a pool is something that is arrived at after a period of time adding acid to control pH. You can also lower your pH on purpose by following the instructions in Pool Schoool for lowering TA. A lower TA helps to tamponade the pH rise to a degree. Please understand though, as long as you are running your SWCG, there will always be a need for acid additions and there will always be a tendency for your pool water to want to creep towards the alkaline side. The chemistry behind the SWCG causes this. I have a feeling that because your SWCG is working so hard to keep up with the chlorine demand in your pool (because the CYA is low at 30 ppm) that this is creating a more alkaline environment than normal.

    I am hesitant to really recommend absolute treatments here because I always tend to question pool store test results. They are so frequently wanting when it comes to accuracy. But assuming that they are perfectly accurate, I would suggest that you lower your TA to 60 or 70 ppm (this will quickly correct pH). I would also suggest that you raise your CYA to at least 60 ppm. We recommend CYA levels in SWCG pools to be between 60 and 80 ppm as this keeps the salt cell from having to work so hard to keep up with the FC that the sunlight is burning off during the day. Above all else, I would recommend that you purchase a high quality test kit. Only then will you truly know without a doubt, what is going on in your pool water.

    Take a look at these articles:

    pool-school/lowering%20total%20alkalinity
    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock
    www.thepoolcalculator.com
    pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison

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