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Thread: Re: CYA test off the chart

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    Re: CYA test off the chart

    Quote Originally Posted by jblauert
    I currently have a "pool" company and I am pretty sure my CYA is up at your levels ... they think it is adequate to come by once every 2 weeks and pump some gas in the pool. So the FC goes sky high and then drops for 2 weeks ... thus they need the high CYA I guess. I too am getting ready to oust them and take over, probably with a SWG, so I will also have to change over 50% of my water.
    By any chance is your pool company Pool Chlor? I know they tend to keep the CYA at 100 ppm and use chlorine gas, but they usually go once a week raising FC to around 14 ppm and ending up with around 4 ppm when they come by again. That is quite reasonable. I can't see, however, how visiting only every 2 weeks would work unless they also have some Trichlor pucks in a floating feeder slowly dissolving.
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    Re: CYA test off the chart

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    By any chance is your pool company Pool Chlor? I know they tend to keep the CYA at 100 ppm and use chlorine gas, but they usually go once a week raising FC to around 14 ppm and ending up with around 4 ppm when they come by again.
    One problem with that method is that the pH will drop by about 0.85 when adding that much chlorine gas at once.

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    Re: CYA test off the chart

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW
    One problem with that method is that the pH will drop by about 0.85 when adding that much chlorine gas at once.
    They actually use a roughly 50/50 combination of chlorine gas and chlorinating liquid (added separately, of course), keep the TA somewhat higher, and add baking soda as needed (around 7 ppm per week). So the pH doesn't change very much, dropping only slightly upon addition (< 0.1 drop) with the subsequent carbon dioxide outgassing compensating for the net acidity of chlorine usage.
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    Re: CYA test off the chart

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    By any chance is your pool company Pool Chlor? I know they tend to keep the CYA at 100 ppm and use chlorine gas, but they usually go once a week raising FC to around 14 ppm and ending up with around 4 ppm when they come by again.
    Probably not the right place for this discussion, but yes, Pool Chlor. I have never seen them use liquid chlorine. They do add baking soda. Pretty sure the CYA is well about 100 (although I have not done a diluted test). They switched to only every 2 weeks last year. In the summer they add a floater with tabs (although it has been empty since they put it in). Supposed to come tomorrow ... I tested the water today since it was starting to look cloudy:
    FC/CC 0/0
    Ph 8.0
    TA 130
    Had to call and complain so they can send the supervisor ... probably will have to call every 2 weeks until I get my SWG going.

    Woman on the phone agreed that we do not know how they think they can get away with only every 2 weeks, especially with the full sun and heat of the AZ summer.

    A couple weeks ago I tested the day after they came and FC was 17.0

    I want to get rid of them, but with the CYA so high, bleach would be a pain. I do not want to drain the water yet as I want to wait until I am ready to do the the plumbing when the water level is below the returns, but I do not yet have all the equipment.
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    Pool company strikes again ... safe levels?

    So as some of you may have read earlier, I found my FC to be 0 this morning and the water cloudy and called to complain. They sent someone out today (tomorrow would have been my 2 week schedule) and did a service. I am HOPING they did not put any algaecide or **** in and will confirm tomorrow. I decided to test again this evening and then in the morning to do an over night loss test to see how bad things may be. Here are the numbers:

    5/19 8AM 10PM
    ph 8.0 7.2*
    FC 0.0 29.0
    CC 0.0 0.5? after so many drops the water was turning yellowish I think
    TA 130 90
    CH 300
    CYA was 100+ a few weeks ago, plan to dilute and test again tomorrow in daylight.

    I realize the ph is not valid at the high FC level which scares me it may be really low. Odd thing was I did that test first and then 10 minutes later I noticed the color had changed to 8.0 ... can anything be deemed from that?

    I really need to find the funds and time to install a SWG system and redo the pad plumbing. I am hesitant to go BBB in the mean time as the CYA is so high. And I would prefer not to drain half the pool before I am ready to do the plumbing. Excuses excuses excuses.

    I will update with more numbers tomorrow and hoping the levels will be safe to swim on Saturday.

    ETA: Just checked the pool calculator and if the CYA is around 100, then I am at about shock level so not too outrageous. I do notice a definite smell outside by the pool, with CC of basically 0, am I just smelling the high levels of FC?
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    Re: Pool company strikes again ... safe levels?

    CC 0.0 0.5? after so many drops the water was turning yellowish I think
    I don't understand that statement
    how many drops did you add to get the CC?

    The fact that you smell CC's and that the FC was zero before you have an issue that requires shocking but unless you want to buy out every store in the area you're going to have to drain ad refill a lot of water. I don't know why you're so against starting BBB. You know it needs to be done.
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    Re: Pool company strikes again ... safe levels?

    There are simply too many posts here to remember what someone posted from a previous thread. Unless your new post is a TOTAL departure from your old thread and your old thread is completely irrelevant, you should stay within your original thread.

    Even if you change the subject somewhat, it's OK to stay within your original thread............that way we can see the whole story and get a much better picture of your situation.

    I'm posting not to scold but to remind everyone on the forum to stay within their original thread whenever possible.
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    This conversation originally started in this topic which is surfhawaii's topic. Starting a new topic is appropriate, if confusing, so that jblauert's issues don't take over surfhawaii's topic. I've moved some of the posts from there over to here to try and give a better context for this conversation.
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    I do not want to drain the water yet as I want to wait until I am ready to do the the plumbing when the water level is below the returns, but I do not yet have all the equipment.
    Since you're in AZ, reverse osmosis might be an option for you to get your CYA down. If your water cost is high, that can help be a deciding factor as well. I know there are often companies that will do this in arid regions, but don't know what your specific options are.

    Just another option to look into for the high CYA....

    -- Pete
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    Re: CYA test off the chart

    How much does Pool Chlor charge for the "maintenace"? I would think the saving from letting the go could supply you with enough bleach to hold you over until the SWG. Having FC go from 0-29 and back, with funky PH swings, every two weeks is ridiculous IMO.
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    The ideas behind their service plan are plausible, if quite strange, high CYA levels and all. Their non-standard methods do make this situation a little more difficult to diagnose, but are not the fundamental source of the problems.

    You should not be seeing FC go to zero, nor should PH read that low. Both of those indicate problems. Someone at the pool service is doing something wrong.

    One thing to keep in mind is that lowering CYA is incompatible with continuing to use them to maintain your pool. Don't lower CYA until you have fired them.
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    First, thanks for reorganizing all my posts ... sorry about that mess.

    The water turning yellowish comment was because the water took on some slight color after using 58 drops of the R-0871 to test the FC ... was not really clear before or after testing for the CC.

    This mornings results:

    5/19 8AM 10PM 5/20 5:15AM
    ph 8.0 7.2* 7.2*
    FC 0.0 29.0 27.5
    CC 0.0 0.5 0.5
    TA 130 90 90
    CH 300

    With dilution of the CYA test I consistently got about 50 ... so I am probably around a CYA of 100

    So, there may not be too much living in there since the drop was pretty low over night. I will see how much it drops today with the sun and then do another over night test.

    I understand I can not drop the CYA level with them still servicing. I think I will try to talk to the supervisor today to figure out what they are doing wrong. And I am going to monitor the FC level and call them as soon as it hits the pool calculator minimum (which is 8 for a CYA 100 right?) maybe if I hound them enough, they will figure something out. Or, the firing will happen a little sooner.

    Still some questions:
    1. Since the CC is basically 0 I think, can the high FC have a smell?
    2. Does the high FC always make the ph read high, meaning mine maybe in the 6.#?
    3. If I fire them, would it be easier/cheaper to drop the CYA to the 40 range for bleach and then increase it when the SWG is installed or drop the CYA to the 70 range and just have to use more bleach?

    Thanks for the help.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    1) Yes. Quite low CC levels that don't register on the test can still be smelled.
    2) Very likely yes, but not quite 100% sure. Also, as the FC level falls the PH will continue to go down.
    3) If the SWG is coming this season, I would only drop CYA to around 70.
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    Pool company strikes again ... safe levels?

    OK, this morning the FC was still at 25 and the ph at 7.2(maybe?). I have now turned on the water fall to try to bump up the ph level (since this seems really low with this high of a FC level).

    We are having visitors today and the kids are antsy ... so ... one of the most common questions on here ...

    Is it safe to swim?

    With the ph low and the FC high ... I am guessing there may be some eye sting and more drying of the skin than usual and we should rinse everything down right afterwards ... but is there a danger?

    Thanks.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    My expectation is that the PH is really low and you will find that irritating, especially eyes stinging. But it should be safe enough.
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    Re: Re: CYA test off the chart

    OK, thanks for the info. I will just let everyone know that they may experience some irritation and let them decide ... although I am sure my kids will not care.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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