Just want to compare with an EcoStar..
That depends on how many HP it is. A 1 HP full rated uses somewhere around 1400 to 1650 watts depending on the load.
Watts is a measure of power, which is a measure of the rate of energy use. Energy can be measured in many different units, such as kilowatt-hours, calories, joules, Btus etc.Originally Posted by Aquatica
The watt is defined as one joule per second. Therefore, 1400 watts is energy use of 1400 joules per second. In one hour, 5,040,000 joules will be used, which is equivalent to 4,777 Btu or 1.4 kilowatt-hours.
Since the EcoStar is a variable speed pump, you can compare it several ways.
One way is to compare how much power it uses while pumping the same flow rate. Because it is a fundamentally more efficient design, the EcoStar will produce the same flow rate while using less power.
Another way to compare is comparing the energy used by pumping at lower flow rates for longer periods of time vs. pumping at higher flow rate for shorter periods of time. Because power consumption increases logarithmically, instead of linearly, it is much more efficient to pump at half the flow rate for twice as long.
James W. 's answer is correct, but let me try and simplify things. Wattage is a measure of energy used at a point in time. A 100 watt bulb uses 100 watts the entire time it is on. Your power company charges an amount per kilowatt-hour. If ten 100-watt bulbs are used for one-hour, they will use one kilowatt-hour. If a 1650 watt pump runs for one hour, it will use 1.65 kilowatt-hours and that is what you will see on your bill.Originally Posted by Aquatica
Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
Previous: 40,000G 20'x40' I/G Koven unlined WWII salvage 5/8" marine steel; Lomart Stainless Sand Filter; 3/4hp Hayward SuperPump; 1946-2003 (managed by me from about 1964)
Ancient Taylor K-2000, upgraded with Taylor CH, TA, and FAS-DPD, and TFT CYA tests.
Thanks guys for explaining. We have the EcoStar running at 85wph at 750rmp. had to increase it as we were getting no flow from the Aqua Rite.
I think I will compare the EcoStar with running the 1hp 8hrs per day as most people run 3/4, 1 and 1 1/2 hp pumps. Most people who try to save have 3/4hp super pumps and try to run them 6hrs to save...for a small pool might be ok in the winter but I rather at least 8hrs.
I have one client call me up the other day worrying that I have their 3/4hp hayward pump running 12hrs per day. even if its using around 1.4kwph it would only be using costing him $1,575 to run it per yr.
A 3/4 HP would be 3/4 as much electricity as a 1 HP, so more like 1.1 kw, or more like $1,180, which is still a lot.
If you are paying on the order of $0.26 per kwh and running the pumps year round it is very advantageous to switch to variable speed pumps.
currently we are paying $0.26 per kwh (below 700kw..but it gets higher above that) I hear its going up more this summer....fuel surcharge will be much higher this summer. gas at the pump is now $6 per gallon..could go as high as $9 I think.Originally Posted by JasonLion
Update: owner was running the ecostar at 700rpm but swg shut down..no flow. He increased to 750 rpm and swg was working but salt reading dropped below 2,700 and unit shut down. He has it running at 1,100 rpm and salt is now reading 3,400. so he thinks he will just run less hours now. wants to turn a 14,000 gal pool over 2 x.
however my log report prior to the install had his salt at 3,500 so maybe 1,200 rpm is the right speed for working with an aquarite swg.
if possible, switch to a variable speed pump...Intelliflo from Pentair is the way to go. With your electric rate, you will break even ($) about a year.
19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods
TFP's resident Pool Fool :)
The power used by the pump is proportional to the cube of the pump speed. If the pump runs at twice the speed, it will move twice as much water (in gpm), it will generate 4 times the head (pressure) and use 8 times as much power.
Therefore, running at half of the speed for twice as long will use one fourth of the energy.
Also, permanent magnet motors are about 30% more efficient than induction motors. Both of these factors together will produce substantial energy savings for most customers. The amount of money they save will depend on their electricity rates.
Besides the cost savings, many people are concerned about the environment, and want to do whatever they can to reduce their energy use, regardless of the cost.
Another benefit to running at slower speeds is that sand filters will be able to do a much better job at filtering out fine particles, such as dust, mustard algae etc.
Finally, the Intelliflo is much quieter than standard induction motor pumps, especially when used at slower speeds.
Aquatica, I would be very interesetd in the behavior of your pump at 1100 rpm. I would like to know how far the water level goes down in the basket (if any) after a couple hours. I have a long thread going with lots of people giving great input- some are owners of the Ecostar some intelliflow- seems to be the same results. Check out the thread "Ecostar and air bubbles.Originally Posted by Aquatica
Good luck with your pump- I really like mine, I am actually using all 8 timers.
16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump
In practice power used on low speed is usually very close to 1/4, instead of the theoretical 1/8, due to the various ways in which reality doesn't match up with theory. Meanwhile, it works out that water flow really is 1/2. The net effect in the real world is that you save 50-55% on low by running for twice as long, moving the same total amount of water.Originally Posted by JamesW
Using a variable speed pump around 800-900 RPM you can save up to about 80%. In practice it rarely works out quite that well, because you often need to run a little faster than that to keep the skimmers/heater/SWG happy and/or run a spa or whatever water features you may have at least part of the time. Still, the real world savings are still signficant.
I ran a test on my setup (budget single speed pump) last week, forgot to note the rpm though. 2 1/2" plumbing from the skimmer. 2" to the returns (shared), 3/4 hp pump @ 240v a surprising 223 watts at 6 psi (filtering) and 5 psi (circulating) with barely any reduction in the power consumed. Looking to replace the pump with a variable speed Blue Eco (sadly waiting for the pump to fail).
The pump affinity laws do not include efficiency for both hydraulic and electrical. So in reality, the power portion of the affinity law really relates to the hydraulic power and not the electrical power. So the hydraulic power does decrease by a factor of 8 but since the total efficiency goes down by a factor of 2 on low speed, the input electrical power goes down by only a factor of 4.
Aquatica, if you are interested in an economic analysis of the diference between pumps, the spreadsheet I have here will show you the life time costs of various pumps. The default scenarios are pretty representative of the costs in operating pumps.
Using $0.26 per kwh, a 60 month study period, 1/4 turn on high speeed, 3/4 turn on low, the life time costs are:
2 HP Up Rated Single Speed = $3315
1.5 HP UP Rated Two Speed = $2097
1 HP UP Rated Two Speed = $1935
EcoStar = $2418
So the EcoStar still has not paid for itself after 60 months and a lot of the savings is captured by just going to a two speed pump and the smaller, the better. Note too that these lifetime costs depend on the price of the pump too.
yes I notice less water in pump basket the lower the rpm goes. dont know if this is normal. usually pump basket container is full of water when running. no airbubble problem but thanks will check thread out..Originally Posted by jhalpinjr
Thanks Mark. So basically you are saying that if we need to run the ecostar at 1,200 rpm to operate our swg properly then we might as well had bought a cheaper single speed pump that just runs at 1,200 rpm? However I guess the ecostar and others like it have the extra programming features which could be useful..Originally Posted by mas985
No, there aren't any single speed pumps that run at 1,200. His comparison was to a two speed pump run on low speed (1800 RPM). You get most of the available savings with a two speed on low, so it takes quite a while to make up the extra up front costs of the EcoStar.
Ditto to what Jason said but I did look up the pump prices again on Amazon and with the latest prices (no tax and no extras), the numbers change to:
2 HP Up Rated Single Speed = $2781 ($745 pump)
1.5 HP UP Rated Two Speed = $2097 ($600 pump)
1 HP UP Rated Two Speed = $1895 ($560 pump)
EcoStar = $2003 ($1200 pump)
Also, much of this type of analysis depends on the assumptions. If you assume twice the run time, then the EcoStar pays off much sooner. Not only that but it is hard to put a price on the flexibility of a variable speed pump.