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Thread: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

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    vikter's Avatar
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    Need to replumb, advise welcomed.



    Bought house about 18 months ago. Just replastered pool, replaced pool light and DE filter. Now I'd like to replumb to install 1) new filter valve (push-pull, not multiport), 2) Jandy neverlube 3 way valve, 3) jandy neverlube 2 way valve, and 4) Compu Pool CPSC-36 salt water chlorine generator. I plan on using 2" pipe and fittings where possible, then i'll reduce back to 1.5 where necessary. On the pump side, there is a pipe from the skimmer and one from the main drain, each 1.5", joined by a "T" and fed into the pump. I'd like to add a 3 way valve instead of the "T". On the filter side, there are two return pipes. One has a brass gate valve (doesnt work well and I cant control high water pressure here so i'd like to put 2 way valve here) and goes to a single "eyeball jet" and I'v been told is likely for a water feature. The other pipe feeds three eyeball returns in the pool.

    QUESTIONS
    1) Does the floor have to be level under the filter? Currently it is at an angle and I had to place a small piece of tile under one side try to level it. I can permanently set down a 2' x 2' tile under the filter with thinset and leave it perfectly level if this is advisable.
    2) Is it a good idea to use threaded PVC (with teflon tape of course) or PVC Unions in lieu of pvc cement on certain parts to "save" them so that they are reusable. For example, on the filter valve so that if I have to cut the plumbing say between the pump and the filter, the pump has threads and so will the other end, this way I can neatly tie back into the threaded ends without any patches.
    3)I understand that there are many ways to plumb it- what would you suggest? keep in mind that i need to install the SWCG after the filter. The SWCG that i bought can be seen in this "how to install" guide. Notice it requires a pipe going up into the inlet and another coming down from the outlet - this isnt like the common straight through "in-line" cells such as hayward. The SWCG transformer will likely be mounted on the wall above the pump or filter as the cord is only abour 6 feet. http://www.inyopools.com/HowToPage/how_ ... rator.aspx

    Also, I'm going to relocate the water tap on the wall between the pump/filter. I dont mind moving the filter closer to the pump if necessary to line it up with the water feature return pipe. Should the filter valve be facing the pump instead of the returns?







    I lurked around this forum for a while before I joined. I've learned a lot here. thanks!
    12,500 gallons (checked water meter before/after filling) 35’ x 15’ in ground gunite/plaster, 3’- 6’ deep, Re-plastered 04/30/2011, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter (new 04/30/2011), Hayward Super II 1.5 HP single speed pump model SP3010X15AZ (my best guess because I can’t read the label), TF-100 Test Kit, Compu Pool CSPS-36 (arriving this week, not installed yet)

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Welcome to TFP!

    PVC unions are your friend! They'll save you headaches trying to glue the last joint, and they'll save you money when you need to replace a pump or filter.

    I'd consider a single valve each for your drain and skimmer. That way you can close them both to hold water in the lines when you clean the strainer basket.
    TFP Moderator
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    It is a good idea for the filter to be on level ground, but a small slope isn't the end of the world. It would be best if you level, but it isn't essential.

    PVC is so east to cut and glue back together that I don't use unions or threaded fittings very much. Unions do make it much easier to get the last joint together though. My focus is on getting enough clear pipe near each major fitting that there is enough pipe that you can cut it and glue something new to it in the future.

    Your current setup is fairly good. I wouldn't change the suction side, except perhaps to add valves. On the return side, the filter could be moved slightly so it lines up with the pipe it is connecting to, to eliminate a 90. To get enough run for the SWG, you could run the SWG out over where the pipes go into the ground, and have it come down on the far side, switching the 90s on the risers coming out of the ground, or better have the horizontal pipe that joints the two return lines be vertically above where they come out of the ground, so the SWG outlet goes straight down into the pipe going into the ground.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    I agree with JohnT that you want single valves for each skimmer and drain rather than a 3 way. Although, if you do turn both off, you'll want to remember to open them back up. If you forget, you could burn up the pump.

    I'm attaching a photo of my plumbing and SWG power supply which might help you since I too have the CompuPool SWG. I have an overflow spa and solar panels, so your plumbing won't be so complicated.

    While you are plumbing, you might want to add a line from the water supply and a dial timer like I have for easy filling of the pool. I used an old washing machine hose to connect (see photo). The one thing not shown in that is a backflow preventor which you will need.


    [attachment=1:39bm5s1k]Pool Plumbing.jpg[/attachment:39bm5s1k]

    [attachment=0:39bm5s1k]Pool Electrical Panels.jpg[/attachment:39bm5s1k]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    25' x 13' Roman, 12000 gal IGP, Plaster, with 500 gal Spa
    SWG, 1 HP Max Flo Pump, C-900 cartridge filter
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    vikter's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Welcome to TFP!

    PVC unions are your friend! They'll save you headaches trying to glue the last joint, and they'll save you money when you need to replace a pump or filter.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    PVC is so east to cut and glue back together that I don't use unions or threaded fittings very much. Unions do make it much easier to get the last joint together though. My focus is on getting enough clear pipe near each major fitting that there is enough pipe that you can cut it and glue something new to it in the future.
    Thanks JohnT for the welcome.
    I'll look for PVC Unions at lowes or home depot and I'll use them sparingly. Although it is easy to cut and glue PVC, I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and it will bother me to death if there are too many patches.
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    I'd consider a single valve each for your drain and skimmer. That way you can close them both to hold water in the lines when you clean the strainer basket.
    Quote Originally Posted by lborne
    I agree with JohnT that you want single valves for each skimmer and drain rather than a 3 way. Although, if you do turn both off, you'll want to remember to open them back up. If you forget, you could burn up the pump.
    Can't I do this with a the 3 way valve? I can close off the side that goes to the pump, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    It is a good idea for the filter to be on level ground, but a small slope isn't the end of the world. It would be best if you level, but it isn't essential.
    I prefer not to use the piece of tile to level the filter. I had to temporarily use it because when I removed my old Pac-Fab FNS48, the new filter would not align with the filter valve and I didnt want to replace the valve until I replumbed the whole thing. I'll try it out and depending on how well the new plumbing fits (before gluing of course) I'll decide whether to set down a full-size tile.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Your current setup is fairly good. I wouldn't change the suction side, except perhaps to add valves. On the return side, the filter could be moved slightly so it lines up with the pipe it is connecting to, to eliminate a 90. To get enough run for the SWG, you could run the SWG out over where the pipes go into the ground, and have it come down on the far side, switching the 90s on the risers coming out of the ground, or better have the horizontal pipe that joints the two return lines be vertically above where they come out of the ground, so the SWG outlet goes straight down into the pipe going into the ground.
    Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. I'll align the filter to the side with the brass gate valve. I'll place the SWG where you recommended provided the cord will reach.
    Quote Originally Posted by lborne
    While you are plumbing, you might want to add a line from the water supply and a dial timer like I have for easy filling of the pool. I used an old washing machine hose to connect (see photo). The one thing not shown in that is a backflow preventor which you will need.
    Ilborne, you have a nice setup. I'm envious at how neat it looks. I had not even considered a fill timer. I think I'll leave it out for now just to keep it simple. I'll will however steal your idea and use a fill timer with a standard waterhose into the pool when necessary so that I don't have to babysit the water hose.

    Thank you all for your advise. It appears that my setup isn't so bad, but of course I didnt know that and the reassurance is priceless. Thanks again.
    12,500 gallons (checked water meter before/after filling) 35’ x 15’ in ground gunite/plaster, 3’- 6’ deep, Re-plastered 04/30/2011, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter (new 04/30/2011), Hayward Super II 1.5 HP single speed pump model SP3010X15AZ (my best guess because I can’t read the label), TF-100 Test Kit, Compu Pool CSPS-36 (arriving this week, not installed yet)

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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Welcome to TFP!!

    I urge you strongly to reconsider the push/ pull valve! ( )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

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    vikter's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    Welcome to TFP!!

    I urge you strongly to reconsider the push/ pull valve! ( )
    Thanks for the welcome. I already have a new push-pull valve. Since I have a DE filter, it was my understanding the other settings on the multiport were not necessary. Can you pelase elaborate on your recommendation? Thanks.
    12,500 gallons (checked water meter before/after filling) 35’ x 15’ in ground gunite/plaster, 3’- 6’ deep, Re-plastered 04/30/2011, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter (new 04/30/2011), Hayward Super II 1.5 HP single speed pump model SP3010X15AZ (my best guess because I can’t read the label), TF-100 Test Kit, Compu Pool CSPS-36 (arriving this week, not installed yet)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Multis are nice for a couple reasons, I find:
    - When backwashing you can switch between Backwash and Rinse (I think) a few times and all water goes to waste ... nothing dislodged goes back to pool
    - Have heard you can use rinse when charging with DE and then no DE makes it to pool
    - Can pump directly to waste, bypassing the filter if you are vacuuming or something
    - Can set to recirculate, bypassing filter, if you are having to do filter maintenance/repairs

    May be more things that I am not aware of yet
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Please let me think on this before responding. I am SO anti- push/ pull valves that I want to be sure I'm going to give my best advice, without including my bias
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikter
    Can't I do this with a the 3 way valve? I can close off the side that goes to the pump, right?
    Yes, you are correct. Mine is automated and have it set up so it can't, but my 2 ways are manual.
    25' x 13' Roman, 12000 gal IGP, Plaster, with 500 gal Spa
    SWG, 1 HP Max Flo Pump, C-900 cartridge filter
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Instead of woofing about what's wrong with push/ pull valves I'll tell you some of why and when I use the 4 functions they don't have.

    Waste- probably the function I miss the most on the 6 pools with 8 push/ pull sand filters! 2 of my pools, with 4 of the filters, had a fine silt sediment on the bottom upon opening (so fine it bypasses the sand) - if I could have vacuumed to waste, these pools would be ~ clear right now. Waste bypasses the filter so fine and filter congesting debris can be sent out the backwash/ waste line without clogging the filter. If you get torrential rains, the waste function allows you to lower the water without backwashing the filter (mayhaps a minor point but, if you've got a bunch of ick or algae in the water and need to take the level down, you don't end up putting the 'stuff' in the wrong end of the filter)

    Recirculate- this will allow you to diagnose a filter problem (i.e. sluggish flow from the returns, if the flow goes back to normal when in recirc - you know there's a filter clog) and also allows you to keep the water moving and any automated chem feeders working, or the heater, while you open and clean/ work on the filter.

    Closed- stops the filter tank from draining into the pump when you clean the pump basket - this shouldn't be an issue on a properly plumbed pool, but the ones I'm dealing with do it

    Rinse- helps clear the last debris out of the tank after backwashing and helps to resettle the sand.

    The last 2 I could live without, but not the first 2.

    The other issue I have with our push/ pull valves is that there is no sight glass, just an opaque section of plastic pipe on the backwash line which doesn't give you any idea if the water being backwashed is really clear so all I can do is backwash for a few minutes then put it back into filter position and see if the gauge went back to it's clean psi - if it has, I've probably wasted a # of gallons of water, if it hasn't - I've got to backwash some more

    The ease and usefulness of a 6 - way multi far outweighs the disadvantage of being more expensive (and the greater head can be taken into account when planning the plumbing), as far as I'm concerned!

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Diver's Avatar
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    Re: Need to replumb, advise welcomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    Closed- stops the filter tank from draining into the pump when you clean the pump basket - this shouldn't be an issue on a properly plumbed pool, but the ones I'm dealing with do it
    Ted,

    Can you elaborate on "properly plumbed pool" in this context? I believe mine is not "proper" by your definition - when multiport is in filter and pump basket is open, the air goes into a filter. the only way i see this not happening if the connection between the pump and filter has an "U"-shaped bend in it to trap air.
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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