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Thread: Ecostar and Air bubbles

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    Ecostar and Air bubbles

    I know we have had a few threads on this subject, and it apppears as though some people have been having air bubbles in their treturns with the Ecostar.

    Now that mine is installed, I too have air bubbles at the returns in the pool. When I have mine set to low (1225 rpm) it is most prevalent. It seems as though the basket area never quite fills up with water and their is a lot of turbulence in the top under the see through lid. I am wondering if this is the root cause??

    Has anyone eliminated this issue? Is this issue (air in the returns) a problem? Will it over-aerate the pool?

    I cant seem to get rid of the bubbles unless the pump is running much faster................

    I can do some you tube videos if that helps or hopefully someone hascovered that before.
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    It sounds like you may have a suction side leak if you have air in the pump basket.
    Mark Crook
    13,500 Gallon 24' x 52" Intex Ultra Frame
    Intex Sand Filter and Pump, Intex SWG (All hard PVC plumbed)
    TFTestKit-100---Pool School---The Pool Calculator
    Location: Copperas Cove, Texas --- My Pool Build---Useful Links for Intex Pool Owners

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Interesting topic...I have been following this too as we have a new pool but with the VS 3050 pump. I have not done the poll that was started earlier about getting air bubbles at top of pump yet as I have been trying to "test" it this week to see what we actually have.
    We have air bubbles at the closest return which are sporadic. We definitely have air that collects at the top of the pump at low speed..(1200 rpm). (Also our filter pressure reads almost zero and there is air at the top of filter that takes a long time to release when using the filter release valve.) Higher speed does not seem to have the air bubbles collect. It also seems like when the pump is off at night and restarts in the morning that I hear a big "gurgle" at the return when water gets pushed out upon startup. However, I need to re-do the timer for later when I'm actually up and outside. (it is set to go on at 5 a.m. and I'm thinking I am hearing this gurgle as I am just starting to wake up-- bedroom door is open to pool)
    It would be interesting to see how many comment on this---consensus I keep reading from other threads that this seems to be normal for the variable speed pumps. Being a newbie, I just want to confirm we are not missing some air leak or something important. Our PB does not use these pumps much yet and so do not have any past experience or knowledge to rely on. Also, my trust factor on their own continuing pool education is waning. They have built pools for years but keep doing it just as they have done 25 years ago. (They even told my husband the last time when they were here that they were going to be doing what my husband suggested on the automatic pool cover but that's another topic. )
    Do the manufacturers have any news releases that report anything like this? I've tried to do a search at Pentair website but am not finding anything. Since these pumps have been out for sometime am curious what is considered the "norm".
    Thanks again to all those who share here....what an incredible and valuable resource!
    Cheers!
    ~Julie



    30K gunite pool, Pentair VS 3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, Jandy AquaPure SWG, automatic cover, Intellibrite Pentair LED light, no heater.

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Crook- thats what I thought too, but It just doesent seem to be the case. The water in the basket is about 1" belwo the lid- it never goes to the top . The top of the water is very turbelent, I think thats the casue of the air.

    I cant get the water to fill up all the way to the top of the lid.

    I shut off the skimmer valve, then the repeated with the main drain- no change. I then used the "pour water on the fittings" and still no change. I dont think it will ever stop unless the basket fills all the way as mentioned.

    A few others had the same issue with their Ecostar- I am wondering what the resolution/if any or if this is a problem.

    SW- good post- thank you. I also am a newbie to vsp's. Hopefully we can get a solid consensus. I am going to try adn reach out to Hayward today. I will post results of the conversation.
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    tested several EcoStar pumps recently with another (actually 2 pools) extended family pool, never could get a full basket lid with water and both opted for IntelliFlow VF, issue solved as the pump automatically reprimes if needed and resumes normal cycle.

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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    If other people are having the same issue with the same pumps I'm wondering if it is a design issue with the pump basket itself. Maybe?
    Mark Crook
    13,500 Gallon 24' x 52" Intex Ultra Frame
    Intex Sand Filter and Pump, Intex SWG (All hard PVC plumbed)
    TFTestKit-100---Pool School---The Pool Calculator
    Location: Copperas Cove, Texas --- My Pool Build---Useful Links for Intex Pool Owners

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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    If the air in the pump basket is causing the air bubbles in the return line, how is the air being pushed through the sand in the filter? Maybe it can just not sure. If the air is not going through the filter then you might have a presure side air leak (If that is possible) causing the return line bubbles.
    Mark Crook
    13,500 Gallon 24' x 52" Intex Ultra Frame
    Intex Sand Filter and Pump, Intex SWG (All hard PVC plumbed)
    TFTestKit-100---Pool School---The Pool Calculator
    Location: Copperas Cove, Texas --- My Pool Build---Useful Links for Intex Pool Owners

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Ok all I just called tech support at Hayward. I was told the Ecostar if installed properly is just like any other pump- the water must be up to the lid and no air bubbles should be present.

    We went through a few steps on the phone. 1st was to go into the configuration menu and change the "prime" setting from "auto sense" to "3 minutes" no change. Then they walked me through the water hose over the connections again. They told me that being the water is 1.5" below the lid this may take time with the hose. I quickly tired of this technique. And then it hit me! I decided I would run into the house and get some red food coloring.

    I was able to see red food coloring wick into the input line into the pump. So there is in fact a leak there. You forum members are amazing.
    Called the PB and he said he may can come take a look today- I will post back.

    At least in all of this Hayward was "verbally' able to confirm the pump should be like any other- no air bubbles and full to the lid.
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    I'm glad you were able to find a possible problem. To get the PB to fix the leak may be another problem.

    Mark Crook
    13,500 Gallon 24' x 52" Intex Ultra Frame
    Intex Sand Filter and Pump, Intex SWG (All hard PVC plumbed)
    TFTestKit-100---Pool School---The Pool Calculator
    Location: Copperas Cove, Texas --- My Pool Build---Useful Links for Intex Pool Owners

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    I called Pentair as well---they say because of the low flow at lower speeds you will see air bubbles when there is a leak in the suction side. Soooo....we must have a leak somewhere! We will keep testing the areas suggested.

    jhalpinjr---how exactly did you use the red dye...just apply it at the union area? I've used the shaving cream, but still did not find anything. Also did the running water as well as lubricated o-rings.

    We're still perplexed by the air bubbles. However I do notice that when the SWG goes on more air bubbles (or champagne bubbles) emit....so I'm taking that as normal. Having air bubbles collect under the pump lid I am taking as abnormal.

    And yes crookm11....to get the PB to find it will be another lesson in patience. I think we will continue to be the investigators.

    Anyone else have any ideas how to locate a suction leak?

    Thanks for bringing this topic up again....interesting stuff with these new low flow variable speed pumps...I don't think others noticed an air leak when you had pumps running at a higher speed/
    Cheers!
    ~Julie



    30K gunite pool, Pentair VS 3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, Jandy AquaPure SWG, automatic cover, Intellibrite Pentair LED light, no heater.

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Ok PB left over an hour ago. Pump is much better now with no bubbles under the cover, and the basket is entirely filled with water.

    SW- for the red food coloring- I just lightly squeezed it around the joints- anywhere they we glued. It sucks right in where the leak was. THere was a void where they had glued the pipes. This was a great fix.
    NOTE: Red food coloring on your hands is hard to get off- not a problem if your a clown or a drag dancer- however, I am not- Found baking soda and shaving cream removed it well.

    Another tip- I had set my max pump speed to 2250RPM- that was simply not enough to fill the basket during the prime cycle- Now the max is set to 3200 and it fully fills the basket in under a minute. This really wont affect your efficiency as this is the max speed global setting all other speeds can be independently set. However, now the prime speed is much better.

    Much happier now with the pump
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    So good to hear your results!!

    I'm heading out with dye now!...thanks!
    Cheers!
    ~Julie



    30K gunite pool, Pentair VS 3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, Jandy AquaPure SWG, automatic cover, Intellibrite Pentair LED light, no heater.

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Be careful with the food dye..it stains easily! Cover up the stuff underneath that you don't want to get stained (like concrete, etc)
    Cheers!
    ~Julie



    30K gunite pool, Pentair VS 3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, Jandy AquaPure SWG, automatic cover, Intellibrite Pentair LED light, no heater.

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Did it work for you SW?

    It will come off the concrete- just takes a bit of scrubbing- but yes try to prevent that!!!!
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    No, not yet. This is perplexing.
    Cheers!
    ~Julie



    30K gunite pool, Pentair VS 3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 520 Cartridge filter, Jandy AquaPure SWG, automatic cover, Intellibrite Pentair LED light, no heater.

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Ok UPDATE 3 hours of running pump at 1200 RPM......the water goes down and is now back below the level. Tested the PB leak fix- its not leaking. Went around all intake joints. No leaks that I can find.

    This is perplexing.....I am now back to wondering if these pumps cant hold their prime. Called the pool builder he said I need to run the pump above 2000 RPM......not logical for dropping $1200.00.

    I am going to see if I can get an actual Hayward Rep onsite.........
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    In my other post I mentioned that I talked to couple of PB's here and they said it is normal at low speeds. Mine primes all the way and then goes down to the top of the basket level. No air in the returns and runs like that all day. I programmed it to ramp up to 2000 rpm for 5 min every 4 hrs. No problems so far.
    23k IG. Plaster. StaRite system 3 Cartridge Filter (S7M120), Pentair MiniMaxNT Heater. IntelliFlo VS (8 Speed). Going BBB

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    I don't have the eco-star, but do have a 2-speed Tristar and I am experiencing the exact same issues on low speed. Small bubbles will accumulate in a few hours to form a large pocket of air, eventually reaching the point where the water level is approximately 1.5" below the lid. Have tried all the tricks---lubing lid gasket, varyng valve alignment, tightening unions, running water over fittings etc. No change. The only remedy is to run on high speed for a minute or 2 which puzzles me even further. I would think if I had a suction side leak, high speed would draw more air in
    Completed: June 2011
    18' X 38' IG Vinyl, 3' - 8' depth ~ 24K gallons
    2 skimmers, 2 wall suctions, 3 returns, 1.5" piping

    Hayward Equipment: 1HP Tri-star 2-speed, Aqua-Plus SWG,
    Star-Clear Plus 175 sqft cartridge filter, Colorlogic 4.0 LED

    The Pool Cleaner 4X(suction)
    2011 Jacuzzi J-280 Hot tub

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Glad to see this brought up again. I started the poll and one of the earlier posts on this problem. You can find the poll here and the post on air in the filter basket here.

    In regards to getting the basket area to fill with water I find that running the pump up to 3200 rpm for 3-5 min. will completely fill the basket and expel all the air pretty much every time, but they begin to accumulate almost immediately and within an hour or two at lower speeds it's down to the level of the top of the strainer or lower. The 2nd post mentioned above has several possible reasons why this is happening. I started doing a pressure test on my pipes, but ended up chasing an air leak in one of the schraeder valves I was using to instill air in the pipes. I still plan on continuing the test, but haven't had time so far. Maybe I can work on it this weekend. If so, I'll post up the results. If the air is not caused by an air leak on the suction side, a couple of forum members suggested that it could be caused by outgassing of oxygen and nitrogen from the decreased pressure on the suction side. It's interesting that Hayward claims that once primed it should remain full with no bubbles collecting. I think I'd like to give them a call. Can you post or pm me the number where you reached their tech support?

    I just had my original EcoStar replaced just a little over an hour ago. To see why, go here and be sure to check your pump for the same problem. The first pump he took out of an unopened box had a similar problem (pictures from today in the post) but the second one was ok. I just went out and set it to run at 3200 rpm to purge the air from the basket and then set it to 1500 rpm till 11 pm. We'll see how long it takes the air to re-accumulate, if it does.

    Please pop over to the first link and participate in the poll if you haven't already.

    Thanks,

    Gary
    26,200 gal. 35' x 16' Plaster IGP (50 yrs. old), Hayward 48 sq. ft. DE filter, Hayward EcoStar VS pump, Intellichlor IC-40 SWCG, The Pool Cleaner 4X suction, Pool Skim and Pool Devil skimmers. Re-plastered Sept. 2010.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Ecostar and Air bubbles

    Gary the number I called was 908-355-7995 for Hayward tech support.
    Please let us know if you receive the same answer.

    Thank you.
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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