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Thread: Opening numbers from Waterbug

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Opening numbers from Waterbug

    Okay here are the pool store numberss. We have just opened the pool and used 1/2 bottle 5oz of clear to shock it.

    Vinyl above ground pool 18' x 52" sand filter, approx. 7600 gallons
    Water is currently very clear.


    TA 100
    ph 7.2
    Cya 100
    Total Hardness 100
    Total Chlorine 0.5
    Free Chlorine 0.5

    Their recommendations, using the Simplicity Clear System:

    5 oz more clear to shock again
    9lbs of hy cal to bring hardness up

    start up the chlorine feeder using the clear tabs

    Okay from reading this forum I am thinking that the CYA is too high - how do you lower that? Also that the tabs we use add cya and we already have too much, so how do you combat that?

    How about the total hardness which they say should be 200-400 and is currently 100?

    They say everything else, except chlorine levels, is within normal range.

    Thanks, Waterbug
    18 ft.52" Round Atrium AG -7600 gallons, Sand Filter, Vinyl liner, Royal Entrance Steps, 80 lbs.solarsalt

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Lowering CYA - can only be done by losing water, either backwashing to waste, splashout, or a partial drain and fill.

    Calcium hardness - this is irrelavent in a vinyl pool. It can be 0, or it can be 500. doesn't matter. Skip the hy cal.

    With a CYA of 100, you need to keep a MINIMUM of 8 ppm FC as per this time-tested chart:

    Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
    0 ppm . . . . ... . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
    10 - 20 ppm . .. . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
    30 - 50 ppm . .. . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
    60 - 90 ppm . . .. . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
    100 - 200 ppm ... . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

    I have no idea how much 5oz of 'clear' will raise your FC, since I do not know the concentration, but even if it was 100% chlorine, it would only raise your FC by 5.1 ppm, which does not even get you close to shock level for your CYA of 100.

    I would stay far far away from the clear tabs, as they are probably the cause of your high CYA in the first place.

    Now, what I would do is hit your pool with bleach to get your FC up to 8. A gallon of plain, unscented ultra bleach will get you there. If you have no CC (which you don't by those numbers) and your water is clear, there is no real reason to shock your pool.

    Your pH is at the bottom of the range, but ok.

    Hope this helps for now...

    ETA: You need to get a good test kit and take CONTROL of your pool, either this one or the Taylor K-2006. Leslies also has their own version with Taylor reagents.

    8200 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, manually chlorinated with 10% liquid, salt added to ~2000, 12" sand filter, 1600gph pump, TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, Chlorine/CYA Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Very well done mermaid Queen. I think you need a pool
    27' Round AG, 17,200 gallons, sand filter

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poolidiot
    Very well done mermaid Queen. I think you need a pool
    Dont want her scales to dry out
    Echo Canyon II by Artesian Pools, 13.5 KGal AG Round, 22" Artesian Sand Filter 2 hp Artesian pump
    Med Lab Tech for 12 years in E.TN
    Chem testing by Trouble Free Test Kits

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    If we add bleach, does this mean that the CYA will come down as well without draining water from the pool? Or will it gradually come down as rain enters and water gets splashed out?


    We are quite confused about all this, only second year of having a pool. Last year we followed all the pool store Simplicity program. The kid today and the guy who opened the pool talked about added the Simplicity initiator once the pool is balanced, but if I read thi s forum correctly, the initiator will simply up the CYA level even further???????

    My partner is looking at me like i have two heads because we bought enough Clear tabs and shock to last the season and what are we supposed to do with that?? Is there any way to just add the Clear liquid for shocking every week as the program suggests and add a few bottles of bleach every week instead of the pucks. Are there any pucks that will use the automatic chlorinator and not raise the CYA level?

    Oh your Grace, I need lots of help here! I do have the Taylor test kit, but that is going to take some figuring out before I can make sense of that one.....
    18 ft.52" Round Atrium AG -7600 gallons, Sand Filter, Vinyl liner, Royal Entrance Steps, 80 lbs.solarsalt

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbug
    If we add bleach, does this mean that the CYA will come down as well without draining water from the pool? Or will it gradually come down as rain enters and water gets splashed out?

    >>Nothing will 'cause' the CYA to come down. With a CYA that high, it will take a LOT of splash out to bring it to a "normal" level, like half of your pool! Evaporation does not help either, as it simply concentrates the CYA (like a glass of salt water... water evaporates, salt - or CYA - stays.) However, using bleach instead of the tabs will not cause your CYA to rise any further. Are you certain of your CYA value? Do you have another pool store in your area that could test for you? Better yet, get to deciphering that test!!

    We are quite confused about all this, only second year of having a pool. Last year we followed all the pool store Simplicity program. The kid today and the guy who opened the pool talked about added the Simplicity initiator once the pool is balanced, but if I read thi s forum correctly, the initiator will simply up the CYA level even further???????

    >>I don't know what 'initiator' is; will have to find (waterbears?) post about your system later and reread it

    My partner is looking at me like i have two heads because we bought enough Clear tabs and shock to last the season and what are we supposed to do with that??

    >>Can you sell the tabs, or keep a few for vacation? Or return them to the store for credit or liquid chlorine (same as bleach only stronger)

    Is there any way to just add the Clear liquid for shocking every week as the program suggests

    >>Sure you can use this to chlorinate your water, but there is no need to shock weekly if your pool does not need it. If you don't have any CC, or other obvious problems, like algae, you do not need to shock. In fact, if you keep your FC up on a daily basis (a few minutes per day) you will rarely need to shock... only after a large bather load, or stray mermaid, or other catastrophic event, like an icky dead animal, or a baby in the pool.
    Also, what else is in that bottle of Clear? does it contain copper or other things? does it say dual action or anything? If it does, you really do not want that other stuff in the pool.
    I realize it is difficult, but you really need to forget about that program. If you get your TA and pH and CYA adjusted, you really only need to add some bleach daily. (I think TA and pH were ok)


    and add a few bottles of bleach every week instead of the pucks.

    >>you will need to add some bleach daily, in the evening. You should test your water every evening with the OTO kit (I will explain how to read higher than 5ppm tomorrow, if you don't know already) and add the appropriate amnount of bleach to get your FC up.

    Are there any pucks that will use the automatic chlorinator and not raise the CYA level?

    >>Not to my knowledge.

    Oh your Grace, I need lots of help here! I do have the Taylor test kit, but that is going to take some figuring out before I can make sense of that one.....
    Start practicing using your test kit. As was mentioned in another post, the directions should be inside the lid. I cannot get more specific with the 'big' kit, as I don't have one, but can help you with the small OTO and pH tests. You will figure it out, and almost certainly will have more accurate results than you get from the teenage pool store employee who would rather be anywhere but work!!

    Take a deep breath. The BBB method is quite simple. "You can do it; we can help!"

    8200 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, manually chlorinated with 10% liquid, salt added to ~2000, 12" sand filter, 1600gph pump, TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, Chlorine/CYA Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    I believe simplicity initiator is actually cya according to what someone wrote here.

    What I can't really fathom is why do all these folks use pool store programs if they work so badly? What does too much Cya actually do?

    I will continue to read and learn and get to work on learning how to test. Thanks for all the help!
    18 ft.52" Round Atrium AG -7600 gallons, Sand Filter, Vinyl liner, Royal Entrance Steps, 80 lbs.solarsalt

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    What I can't really fathom is why do all these folks use pool store programs if they work so badly? What does too much Cya actually do?
    Path of least resistance is to do what the pool store tells you and go swimming. Many folks are simply not interested enough to spend the time and commitment to the learning curve of how to keep their pool clear. Not faulting that.....the reason we have pools is to swim....not to relearn chemistry.

    CYA, while protecting Cl, inhibits it's effectiveness. 30-70ppm seems a good compromise for most pools. Outside that range makes sanitizing difficult.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Probably the pool store employees are just following what the vendor says... you need this and this, and then add this, and this. And it really DOES sound good, so people go for it. Sort of how you blindly followed what the pool store said! I mean, who wouldn't want to only have to test and adjust the water every couple of weeks?? However, in reality, that will only work for a while. Also keep in mind that many of these kids don't really know how to test, and could care less what happens to your pool. When you are following a 'system' and you run into problems (which you will), what do you do? you go to the pool store for advice, and they can sell you more stuff to fix your problems. Creative methods to separate your money from your wallet!!

    The problem with too much CYA is that while it stabilizes the chlorine, it also makes it less effective. Hence you have to keep a higher FC level with high CYA to keep your water clean and sanitized. With a liner pool, if you have to have an enormous amount of chlorine to shock, you risk fading your liner. (though there was some debate about that last year: if the effectiveness of the FC is lowered, so is the bleaching action. I would not want to test the theory!) But again, if you take a few minutes a day to test and adjust your FC, you should not have to shock much at all.

    8200 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, manually chlorinated with 10% liquid, salt added to ~2000, 12" sand filter, 1600gph pump, TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, Chlorine/CYA Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Waterbug,

    I started out 4 months ago with 100 CYA, my contributor to that was the pucks I was using, and I too have a 5 gallon bucket of them, so here is what I did, I started using bleach for my sanitizer, and through rain, backwashing, and splashout my CYA is now 70, I will keep using bleach until my CYA is about 50 then maybe add a puck or two, now and then but my main sanitizer will be bleach, I know my CYA will drop even more now that the pool is being used more often.

    Hope this helps

    oh yeah I try to keep my FC between 5 and 10

    Rob
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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