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Thread: One of the Worst?

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    One of the Worst?

    So I couldn't pass this up and I knew it would happen eventually, so here goes:







    Approx 42,000 gallons, 8 years old plaster. I know nothing about DE filters, except for what I've read on here. So need some wisdom....

    Obviously whoever closed it did a bang up job.
    Is that not the biggest chlorinator you've EVER seen!
    I think the DE filter is a 48 not a 24 that's highlighted - who wants to weigh in on that?
    The heater is Raypak but I don't know what model.

    The pump basket started to fill with air when I switched it to recirculate. I need recirculate to work! So where do I look for the air leak?

    I live 30 minutes from this job and I need to set it to recirculate for when I'm not there monitor the filter.

    This is gonna take alot of elbow grease, vacuuming and filtration but I couldn't pass up the job! Any advice?

    Comments and input welcome!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: One of the Worst?

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Approx 42,000 gallons
    I would double-check that, as it seems high for that pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    I think the DE filter is a 48 not a 24 that's highlighted - who wants to weigh in on that?
    Yes, it's a 48. The hole is punched out for the 48 on the label.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    The heater is Raypak but I don't know what model.
    The heater label is usually inside the heater. If you remove the access panel, you should be able to find it. I'm guessing that it's propane due to the tanks shown in one of the pictures. Also, some of the green in the plaster looks like it could be copper stains, although it's too early to tell. Copper stains would indicate heater problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    The pump basket started to fill with air when I switched it to recirculate. I need recirculate to work! So where do I look for the air leak?
    It would be somewhat unusual for the pump to suck in air only when on recirculate vs. filter since it's running either way. Although there would be more flow when bypassing the filter, so it might be an air leak that is close to sucking in air when on filter.

    It could be several places, the fitting going into the pump, the lid O-ring, the drain plug, or possibly something related to the hot tub, if the hot tub is on the same system, especially if the hot tub is drained and not being refilled. It could be the skimmers sucking in air if the water level is low or if the weirs are sticking.

    I would start off vacuuming to waste using a side pump to get most of the loose algae out. That will take care of most of the problem. Since the water is clear enough to see to the bottom, this should probably clear up quicker than you expect.

    That giant tab feeder is a big warning sign. I would guess that it was over-filled, that the pH was chronically low and that the cyanuric acid was/is very high. Low pH and high chlorine would eat up the copper heat exchanger in the heater.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: One of the Worst?

    I was totally guessing, and guessed smaller, the pool is 12 feet deep in the deepend. I added a gallon of MA 31.45% and the PH went from 8.2 to 7.5 so that's why I guessed 42,000. I welcome other guesses!

    I found an empty bottle of copper sulphate algaecide left by the fellow who didn't know what he was doing chemistry wise.

    Yes, its propane. I will look in the panel for the model no, thanks!

    The spa is empty, so maybe that explains it? I'm guessing I need to fill the spa then and treat it all at once?

    "using a side pump" - to vacuum to waste, can you elaborate? I'm not sure I know what you mean...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: One of the Worst?

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    I was totally guessing, and guessed smaller, the pool is 12 feet deep in the deepend. I added a gallon of MA 31.45% and the PH went from 8.2 to 7.5 so that's why I guessed 42,000. I welcome other guesses!
    pH is usually not exact enough to estimate volume based on the effect of adding acid.What are the dimensions?
    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    The spa is empty, so maybe that explains it? I'm guessing I need to fill the spa then and treat it all at once?
    It looks like the spa is on the same system, so it should be done at the same time. The spa suction valve is open and would suck in air if the spa is empty. There are valves that you can use to close it off and isolate it if you don't want to service the spa

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    "using a side pump" - to vacuum to waste, can you elaborate? I'm not sure I know what you mean...
    I carry a 1 HP Superpump with me just to vacuum out dirty pools. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the customer's system. It has a fitting in the front to connect a vacuum hose to, and one in the discharge for a 2-inch vinyl discharge hose to run the water to waste. I put a valve on the discharge to control the flow rate. It's important to put the valve on the discharge and not the suction because a valve on the suction would get clogged by debris, but the water going out the discharge has the larger debris strained by the pump basket.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: One of the Worst?

    It is much easier to prime the pump when you are only drawing from one suction line. Turn the spa suction and three of the pool suction lines off and try priming with only one of the skimmers.

    Also, now would be a good time to pick up copper and iron test kits if you don't have them already.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: One of the Worst?

    I do about a dozen clean-ups like these every year.

    My advice is to slowly and carefully vacuum as much of that to waste as possible. I use a 1HP Whisperflow wired for 120V that I carry to jobs like this. A 2"-2" thread one-side, "nipple" other (pick up at ACE)... the inside fits a vacuum hose perfectly. Your lucky the water is clear so you can see the crud on the bottom. DONT kick that stuff up (try like heck not to). Once it's out, its the difference between using 40-50 gallons of chlorine, and 5-10 gallons of chlorine.

    You'll spend a lot of time trying to use the pool's filter... vac, BW... vac, BW... Although I do see a multi-port - you can use that (to drain), but don't let the water go low or you're going to have a hard-time re-gaining siphon. If you need to add water, make sure it goes into an area you've already vacuumed, that way its flow doesn't kick up stuff from the bottom.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: One of the Worst?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    It is much easier to prime the pump when you are only drawing from one suction line. Turn the spa suction and three of the pool suction lines off and try priming with only one of the skimmers.

    Also, now would be a good time to pick up copper and iron test kits if you don't have them already.
    Thanks Jason and James - it was exactly that! Everythings going great - broke down the filter and soaked the grids they look pretty good (I think they are fairly new).

    I will get the kits - a salt kit too.

    I'm exhausted
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: One of the Worst?

    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    I use a 1HP Whisperflow wired for 120V that I carry to jobs like this. A 2"-2" thread one-side, "nipple" other (pick up at ACE)... the inside fits a vacuum hose perfectly.
    You retro fit this pump with the wiring/plumbing yourself or am I just confused?

    Thanks
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: One of the Worst?

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    I use a 1HP Whisperflow wired for 120V that I carry to jobs like this. A 2"-2" thread one-side, "nipple" other (pick up at ACE)... the inside fits a vacuum hose perfectly.
    You retro fit this pump with the wiring/plumbing yourself or am I just confused?

    Thanks
    Yes, most 1HP pumps can be 120 or 220. When I ripped mine out, it was 220 - I just cut-off the end of an extension cord, re-positioned the jumper on the pump and wired in the 120VAC. If you need one, most people who upgrade to 2sp or VSP either trash their pumps (my son gets $10 @ the recycler for each pump), or put them up on craigslist for between $25-50. Also, not sure if you followed a similar thread - but make sure it's a pump you can easily clean out the impeller if you need to - on really bad jobs, no matter how hard you try, stuff will get past the basket and slow-down and eventually clog the impeller. I can get in-and-out of mine in 3 and have it back together in 5.

    I then thread one of these onto each end:



    GOOD duct tape will hold the pressure-side in (most of the time). I got tired of spending a fortune on backwash hose only lasting 3-4 drains (and its a real pain to roll-up), so now I use 1.5" vacuum hose, and the hose makes a snug fit inside the barbed fitting perfectly (I've also mad a few modifications permanently putting 2" threads on a few hoses with epoxy - mostly for when the hose is on the pressure-side of the pump).

    I didn't notice that it was you that started this thread... I remember a while back you were thinking about making the plunge into helping those outside of your pool (i.e., starting a business) - did you take this step? If you did, and you need anything at all (pricing, marketing, accounting, etc... or pool stuff), don't hesitate to holler this direction! No need to repeat my mistakes!
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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