Taking the plunge...

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I completely agree with you camelai! Jason has been a great deal of help and I have gathered that his opinion is highly regarded on this forum. If these messages came across any other way, I apologize. I greatly appreciate all of your help Jason!

Matt
 
It is best to keep conversion topics in the baqua area because a baqua conversion breaks so many of the usual patterns we teach for pool care. In another area you run a much greater risk of getting comments that really don't apply to your situation because someone didn't notice that you are in the middle of a conversion or doesn't know what to expect during a conversion.

You really are doing very well. Yes, it is a little unusual that the water hasn't cleared up, but that isn't really the the thing to focus on right now. The key indicator of how things are progressing is the amount of chlorine lost overnight. As long as you are losing less chlorine each night than the previous night, things are going well.

If you want to work on the cloudy water issue, I suggest doing PH, TA, and CH tests tomorrow at some point when the FC level is below 5 and posting those results. That will allow us to check for the possibility of calcium clouding, which is the most likely explanation other than something to do with the conversion process.
 
Sounds good Jason. I only lost 2ppm of FC last night and my CC was .5 so I think I am still making progress. Little to no change in the clarity though. Unfortunately I am leaving for the weekend so I will not be able to run a PH, TA, and CH test until Sunday. I gave my roommates the low down on how to do a FAS-DPD test and add chlorine accordingly. Hopefully by Sunday I will be loosing less than 1ppm and will be able to change the sand and start adding CYA regardless of the clarity.
 
Before I left for the weekend on Friday, I noticed the pool was loosing water again so in my frusteration I decided to shut the pump down and deal with it when I got home. :grrrr:

Yesterday, I found another leak (makes me question the strength of my liner after being exposed to the sun all last summer without any water in it), patched the hole, and filled her back up. When I got home from work this morning, the level hadn't changed so I turned on the pump, swept the bottom, and then ran some numbers. Here is where I am:

pH: 7.5
FC: 0 (obviously)
TA: 200ppm as calcium carbonate per my k-2006 kit (not sure what this means)
CH: 150ppm as calcium carbonate
CYA: did not test as I have not added any since I started my conversion

From what I have read in Pool School, it looks like both my TA and CH are elevated, but I don't know to what extent? Could this be causing my cloudiness? I had to refill about a foot yesterday and it has been raining everyday for the last week, so I am surprised they are as high as they are...

I must say the water clarity is better. I still cannot see the bottom, but at least I can see my fingertips when I have my arm submerged under water (probably 2ft or so)

What should be my next move? Do I need to do anything about any of these other numbers or just start hitting it again with bleach? The last overnight test I did, which was on last thursday, I lost 2ppm of FC (15 to 13) and my CC was 0.5

I am going to be out of town over the weekend again, which makes it difficult to fully commit for 2 days when I know I am going to be gone for 3 without anyone to give the pool the attention it needs. I have already went through around 50 gallons of bleach so I hate to waste money, time, and effort if adding bleach for the next 48 hours will be in vain. But if you guys think it will be beneficial to get after it again for a couple days, I will start adding, scrubbing, and testing.

I appreciate any and all advice,

Matt
 
Yes, your TA is very high and that could possibly be causing calcium clouding. If that is what is happening, lower the PH to 7.2 (which FC is low) should clear things up.

Every evening you can, raise the FC level back up to 15 at least once. You don't need to do anything more than that at this point, though continuing to check overnight FC loss is a good idea.
 
Hey Jason, I'm not sure I follow the part of your post that says "lower the PH to 7.2 (which FC is low) should clear things up". What does (which FC is low) mean? Do you mean while FC is low?

After I posted last, I decided to add bleach as I figured I would only make progress over the next couple days rather than letting it sit for 5 more days. Should I let the FC get back down 0 and then add MA, or can I just add it now? Do I need to do anything else besides bringing my pH down or should that fix my TA and CH problems? Thanks a bunch Jason,

Matt
 
Hum, another typo, that is three today :(

I meant that you should lower the PH while the FC level is low. When the FC level is high it can throw off the PH results. You can add muriatic acid to lower PH based on your previous test results, but you can't check the PH to see if you hit your target until the FC level is again low (which will be no later than tomorrow, and probably sometime very soon).

If lowering PH solves the cloudy water issue, which it might and it might not, then you will want to work on bringing TA down, which is a good idea anyway, but there isn't any rush to do that apart from the cloudy water issue.
 
Well, since I had already brought my FC up to 15 I used the poolcalculators recommendation of 20oz of MA to bring my pH from 7.5 to 7.2. I didn't bother rechecking as I knew it would be inaccurate. Here numbers for last night and this morning...

6/22 @ 2130:
FC - 14
CC - 1

6/23 @ 0600:
FC - 13
CC - 0

Water clarity about the same. Here is the strange part... I tested my TA this morning assuming it would have dropped since I added 20oz of MA, but it was 210 this morning! Does high FC levels affect the TA test as well as the pH test?

It has been raining on and off for the last several days here in MN so hopefully that in combination with pointing my jet out of the water will bring my pH up so I can add more MA. Do you think it is most likely my high TA level that is causing this clarity issue? If I pass the overnight test, which I nearly did last night, should I move along with the conversion (change my sand and start adding CYA)???

Thanks!

Matt
 
Bringing down TA is an ongoing process, one that is easier when you aren't in the middle of a conversion, but still takes a while at the best of times.

If you cloudy water is calcium clouding, it will clear up very quickly when you get CSI negative, which gets easier as TA comes down. However, it could be any of several other things. FC should come down quickly today and you should be able to work on lowering PH before you raise FC again tonight. If you can get the PH down to 7.2 you will know very quickly if the cloudiness is calcium clouding.

If I read correctly, your FC loss last night was 1.0, so you are ready to move on to the final stage of the conversion: changing the filter media and adding CYA.
 
That is correct. Should I go ahead and proceed with the conversion or wait for clarity to improve? If the clarity does not improve when my pH down to 7.2, does that rule out calcium clouding? Any idea what else may be causing this or what I can try to clear things up? Thanks again,

Matt
 

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You should continue with the conversion. There are a couple of things we can't try until the conversion is complete. The cloudy water won't interfere with the conversion. And replacing the filter media might well clear things up.
 
OCLT = .5ppm with CC of 0. Changed the sand yesterday evening and added 64 ounces (by weight) of CYA this morning (socks in front of return jet is OK, correct?). I will be gone for the weekend again, but my roommate will add chlorine each night as needed.

Should I continue to hold the pool at shock levels until all the CYA is disolved?

Clarity remains the same. With any luck, things will clear up by Sunday when I get home.

If I am missing anything, please let me know. Thanks,

Matt
 
You are doing wonderfully. If I am following correctly, today is the second day in a row that CC was 0.5 or lower, so you are officially complete. You can let the FC level come down to the normal level for the CYA level you targeted. Just keep an eye on the CC level, and if CC comes back in the next few days go back to shock level. Otherwise you are done.

On Sunday, get a complete set of test results and we will work on your cloudy water.
 
I can officially see the bottom! :whoot:

Although the water still is a bit hazy, the clarity has definitely improved. I guess the new sand must have done the trick.

Unfortunately, last winter I apparently thought it was a good idea to use a 45lb weight to keep my winter cover from being blown around. Well long story short, it ended up sliding off and sitting at the bottom of the pool until I started working on things this spring. Now there is what looks to be a blackish iron outline ring on the liner where the weight was sitting all winter. There are also a couple spots that I think may be either organic stains or possibly stains from one of the Baquacil products I was using? Any remedies for these little problems?

In regard to chemical levels, here are where things sit as of tonight:

pH - 7.5
FC - 10
CC - 0
TA - 200
CH - 150
I didn't test CYA as I just added it on Friday.

Can I swim? Are my TA and CH levels concerning even with a vinyl liner?

Lastly, this may be a little premature but I am interested in eventually adding borates and/or salt (just a bag for softness). I know I will have to get my TA figured out before starting this process, but should I start looking into this sooner than later or do I need to wait for everything to stabilize for a while?

Again, I really appreciate you walking me through all of this guys!

Matt
 
You can add salt any time. Borates should wait till TA is down some.

TA at 200 is too high even for vinyl without a SWG. However there isn't any rush on lowering TA. You could just lower PH to 7.2 every time it gets to 7.8. Though you might want to lower TA more quickly to add borates. CH is fine.

Swimming should be fine as long as it has been 24 hours since adding CYA (otherwise FC would be on the edge of too high for swimming).

For the stains, try a Vitamin C tablet on a stained area for 30 seconds to a minute and see what happens.
 
Jason, what are your thoughts on throwing a bag of salt in for softer feeling water? Yay or nay?

Also, what is an acceptable TA level before adding borates with my setup? Would you say the best way for me to decrease my TA is to point my jet up so it breaks the surface of the water and add MA to keep my pH in the 7.3-7.4 range? I know you said to bring it down to 7.2, but is that a little on the low side for swimming? I seems like my TA hasn't budged even though I have added a MA to lower my pH twice. I get the vibe that lowering TA can be a bit of a pain in the rear end...

I will try holding a Vitamin C tablet on that stain sometime in the next couple days and keep you posted on how it works. Should it disappear while I am holding it on the stain?

As always, I apprecaite your help. I will be a Lifetime Supporter very soon thanks to all of your help! :goodjob:
 
As I said before, adding salt any time is fine.

I would try to get TA down below 120 before adding borates. Swimming is fine for most people down to 7.2. A few people are more sensitive, but that is rare.
 
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