Taking the plunge...

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First off, I am merging a similar thread I started yesterday into this thread as I was just reading that this is the preferred method of posting.

Topics merged. JasonLion

Next, thanks to you guys, I was able to make some great progress today, which was mostly overcast and great for shocking a pool! Got the pump humming and the filter, well, doing what filters do by 11 this morning. Followed "The Pool Calculator's" guidance (thank you Jason!) to get my pH down to 7.4 and started in with the good 'ol Clorox. Once I started with the bleach, I was able to recheck the FC almost every hour. As expected I was loosing a fair amount of FC every hour, but by the time I performed my last test this evening, my FC was 12 and my CC was only 1.5. I will recheck at dawn before the sun is up and will post the results in the AM, as well as the conversion pictures which were a tad on the disappointing side seeing how I had drained and refilled the pool.

Now for the questions:
1) When I started the conversion, there was no need to run the full set of chemistry test, correct? I brought my pH down to 7.4 and then started hammering on the bleach. Hope I didn't need any levels pre-shock!

2) I had to add some water after backwashing a handful of times and now it is raining here. What effect, in any, will this new water have on the process? Since I am unable to get a realiable pH with such high FC levels, should I add any muriatic acid assuming the water I added, as well as the rain raised my pH?

3) In regards to the overnight test, is this the correct order of events: a. sundown, check FC level; b. add appropriate bleach via The Pool Calculator to bring FC up to 15; c. recheck FC to ensure you know the exact amount after adding bleach; d. recheck before sunrise. I am assuming C. is a necessary step in order to verify your FC level?

4) Once I have a CC < .5, pass the overnight FC test, and change my sand, I should start worrying about the other levels such as TA, CYA, etc? After reading through MANY threads throughout this forum, I would like to eventually add borates as I have had substantial algae problems d/t an uneven pool bottom that makes it hard to get all the crevices clean with conventional vacums and brushes It sounds like borates could substantially help with this problem. It sounds like I need to make sure my TA is in order before I should take on this task. Is this a reasonable thought or would you guys recommend getting the basics down first?

Thanks again for all your guidance! It is greatly appreciated...

Matt
 
1) No need, you are fine.
2) No significant effect. If you feel like checking PH and adjusting it that is fine as long as you do it when FC levels are very low.
3) Yes, all correct.
4) Again, all correct, except CC <= 0.5

:goodjob:
 
Thanks for the quick reply Jason, I appreciate it! Here are my numbers this morning:

FC: 10.5 ppm - added appropriate amount of bleach
CC: 2 ppm

Another debate I am having is whether I should spend the time to vacuum blindly through the murky water or not? I know there are a fair amount pine needles, etc. that are sitting in the pockets of my uneven floor that I am unable to get with a leaf rake, but could get up with the vacuum. The catch is that if I use the vacuum, I will have to either vacuum to waste or backwash my filter constantly, both of which will lower my water level and therefore I will be unable to run my filter for an hour or so while I fill the pool back up to the correct level. I would think this would also throw off my pH and FC levels. Am I better off getting this **** out of the pool or letting the bleach clear things up and then go from there? Thoughts???

Lastly, how often should I really be checking my FC levels throughout this shocking process? I am thinking I am going to go through my whole bottle of r0871 in rather timely fashion if I keep checking the levels every 1-2 hours. Today it is supposed to be overcast all day so I was thinking I could tone it down a bit since the bleach won't be getting eaten up by the sun all day.

Thanks again guys,

Matt
 
Order refills on the R-0870 and R-0871. One problem soved.

I'd vacuum if I knew there was a carpet of pine needles down there. They're just using bleach unnecessarily. You might get more done than you think before backflushing. If you use a vacuum plate, stretch a nylon across the skimmer basket. It's easy to clean off. If you connect directly, empty the pump strainer basket frequently.
 
Thanks Richard! My pool is a merky blue color, which is much improved from the swamp I had 2 days ago. The clarity is still pretty poor, as I can only see a foot or so into the water. I did some vacuuming with the pole attachment for awhile today and was quite surprized to not only see how much crud was still down there, but also the color of what I was wasting, which was a dark hazy green that looks much different than the water I can see at the top. How long does it typically take for the water clarity to improve to the point where I can see what is on the bottom?

I was able to hold my FC above 10 the majority of the day except at one point it dropped to 5, which was when I was vacuuming to waste and refilling the water. I have went through over 1500oz of clorox and still have yet to see my FC level over 13. Is that normal? Today was completely overcast and I was adding slightly more than the pool calculator was recommending, checking the water an hour later, and my FC would still be 10-13 while my CC was .5 - 1.5 all day. If I am not loosing the FC to organics and it isn't sunny, why am I seeing so much FC loss?

One other question I have is in regards to the FAS-DPD test. I am using the taylor k2006 and I am choosing to do the 10cc test vs. the 25cc test in an attempt to save r0871 (already ordered more). If I am doing the 10cc test, I should still use 2 scoops of r0870, correct? It doesn't seem like all the powder completely disolves before I start with the r0871 drops no matter how long I wait. Is that OK?

Thanks guys! I hope to be in the pool doing a little :cheers: before long...

Matt
 
Massive consumption is normal, especially with a lot of organic matter in there.

Do you have a main drain? Is it open? You might need a diverter valve in one of your strainers. That will help clear the lower water. Vacuuming also helps. You might even try pushing the hose to the deep end when refilling to stir things up.

One rounded scoop is plenty of powder. And it's normal to have a few undissolved granules. If you don't have any, you didn't add enough powder.

I'm going camping for three days, so I hope I see favorable results, with pictures, when I return and get caught up.
 
If I was having mass consumption, wouldn't I see a fairly high CC level??? My CC has consistently remained under 2.

I don't have a main drain. My plumming is simply skimmer to pump to filter to return jet.

Thanks for your help, have a good weekend camping Richard! I will be sure to post some pictures by the time you return...
 
Well I am 2/3 the way through my bottle of r0871. I have ordered more from tftestkits.net, but it probably won't be here until Monday or Tuesday. Any local places sell these test? Is there anything wrong with buying these big bottles of r-0871 through amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-R-0871-Fas ... B004BGT62M It looks like the only difference is a letter behind the number, such as "E" or "F"... Any special meaning to this?

If I run out between now and then, what should I do about adding Bleach? The sun came out today and it sure does a number on the FC. Tested @ 1000 FC: 10 - added 140oz of bleach, tested @ 1200 FC: 4 and CC: 0.5. Wow! Here are some pictures of my progress. Still can't see much deeper than a foot or two, any idea when she will start to clear?

6/8 @ 1725
IMG_0743.jpg


6/9 @ 1400
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6/9 @ 1840
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6/11 @ 1320
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IMG_0758.jpg


Last issue (that I don't even want to think about, much start to trouble shoot) is the fact I think I may have a leak somewhere. I filled the pool to the third screw up the skimmer last night before I went to work and this morning at 0730 when I got home, it was between 1/2-1 inch lower. I can't visibly see any water leaking around the plumming, so I am nervous that it is the liner, especially since I had the pool drained for the whole summer last season. I thought I would finish the conversion, adding water as necessary and then once everything is kosher, letting the pool drain until it stops and hopefully being able to identify the leak. Otherwise, I could stop the conversion now and try to find the leak, but I will lost any ground I have made. Kind of a catch 22 in my eyes... Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Matt
 
R-0871 can go bad, especially if it is not stored in a dark cool but not freezing place, so you don't want a huge bottle. Still it is nice to get a reasonably large bottle. Taylor uses letters on the end to indicate the bottle size. E is 16 oz, F is 32 oz. All you really need is a C, 2 oz, or D, 4 oz, bottle.

You can use the OTO test in a pinch. You need to wait until FC gets quite low before you can be sure of a level with OTO, so it all gets very approximate, but you can get by for a while.

The water will clear fairly soon. That could be in hours from now or a number of days, with days being much more likely than hours.

You don't really loose progress on a conversion when you take a break, the way you do when fighting algae. If you stop for a while you can still pick it up later. The main problem is that you will probably get algae, and then need to fight the algae before the conversion continues.
 

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Jason, I found a place here in Rochester that sells R-0871. The bigger issue at hand is that I looked more closely around the edges of the pool to see if I could identify any source for a leak and realized my lawn is saturated on the side opposite of the plumbing, so the only thing I can think of is a tear in the liner that is running out in between the wall and the liner. The problem lies in the fact that I have no idea where the tear is located. Could be at the top, could be at the bottom? If I complete the conversion just to find out the tear is at the bottom, all is lost anyway. I'm pretty bummed out right now. I'm thinking I should just stop refilling and filtering and see how where the water stops, which will hopefully lead me to the tear. Would it pay to continue to raise my FC to 15ish without filtering? I could brush occasionally throughout the days, but obviously wouldn't be the same as filtering... Suggestions? Thanks,

Matt


Also, just reading about the food coloring method of detecting a leak. Problem is, my pool is not clear enough to even see where the coloring is going. Should I continue with the conversion until the pool is clear enough to see this???
 
Most leaks in a vinyl liner pool are fairly obvious once you are looking right at them. With the water cloudy you aren't going to be able to see it until the water level goes down to the leak, which could take a little while. Once you know the depth and which area of wall to search it should be fairly easy to find.

It is probably better to deal with the leak first. As for adding chlorine without the pump, you can do things like brush the pool to get the chlorine mixed in, but that is a project. It might be simpler to let it go. Unless the leak is fairly high up, it is going to be a while.
 
I have had the last couple days off so I have been vigilantly holding the FC level right around 15 for the last couple days, as well as regularly brushing and vacuuming. My CC continues to fluctuate between 0-1.5. My concern is that the pool continues to look cloudy. The color is what I would expect, but I am concerned the cloudiness doesn't seen to be clearing. Is this normal?

IMG_0760.jpg


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Also, would it be reasonable to change my sand at this point? I know the conversion says to wait until you pass the overnight test, but I am wondering if the dirty filtrate could be responsible for the pool not clearing. I know there have been a good amount of pine needles that have made it through both baskets and into the sand.

Thoughts, comments, concerns??? As always, a big thanks!

Matt
 
How much chlorine are you losing overnight? That is the best benchmark for telling how far along you are and will also tell me if the cloudiness is unusual or not.

It is best not to change the filter media until the overnight FC loss is 1.0 or lower.
 
Hey Jason, I appreciate the quick responses. I will post my overnight results tomorrow morning. Also, do you think I/you should move this thread into the "Just Getting Started" or "Testing and Balancing Your Water" forum because it doesn't seem like too many people follow and/or respond to the "Baquacil - Use and Conversion" forum. Thanks again,

Matt
 
The pool still looks cloudy this morning. Here are my numbers

Last night @ 2230 - FC: 17, CC: .5
Today @ 0600 - FC: 13.5, CC: 1

One concern I have regarding the FAS-DPD test, is that since I have started using 1 heaping scoop of r-0870 rather than 2 level scoops the water initially is a darker pink before I start adding r-0871. This morning I did a test with one heaping scoop (15ppm) vs. two level scoops (12.5ppm). Is there a standard I should be using for this, as it seems that it directly affects the numbers I am gettting. Thanks!

Matt
 
When in doubt use more powder. You can get incorrect low readings if you use too little powder, while using too much powder is harmless (aside from using up your powder more quickly).

Losing 3.5 overnight means you are right about the point where the water should clear up.
 
I realize I need to have some POP, but I am getting discouraged. I have been at it for over a week holding my FC around 15 and still have cloudy water. Hopefully you are right, Jason!

What do you think about the forum switch? Should we leave this topic here or would it be appropriate to move it to a forum that sees a little more traffic? Thanks again,

Matt
 
Sometimes too many people telling you what to do is more trouble than it is helpful. Jason is giving you good advice. I have read many conversion stories and they are always somewhat discouraging when the end is near. Just my two cents about changing the topic ect.

I have not have issues with my pool but I was reading here as soon as we knew we were going to purchase a house that had a pool. It has been trouble free from the day we got plaster and water. I did let the chlorine fall to 0 this spring and water was 78 it was green 6 gallons of 10% chlorine and a day later the pool was cloudy with a chance of clear, it was clear one day later. My daughter and brother both thought I needed some other pool chemicals and the pool was ruined for the whole summer. AG pools are a little different but water being sanitized and clear seems to be about the same.
 

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