Older Pool rust and jet repair help and opinions needed.

[stlpoolnoob]

We bought the house last year, neither one of us had owned a pool before. The pool is an older style, concrete basin, Steel panel sides. It is around 30x18 in the shape of two ovals. The deeper part is 8.5' and the shallow is about 4'. The pool had some repair work done to it before we took ownership, they sandblasted, ground out some cracks in the concrete basin, and had one of the walls patched. I didn't find out until much later that this meant, one of the walls had collapsed, flooded our neighbors yard... They had it repaired as cheaply as possible and the previous owners painted it themselves. Super.

After the pool was full, we noticed that rust was coming through the paint. Then we noticed that water really wasn't circulating, lots of algae. Then I noticed that the two holes look like they have been skimmed over with plaster, two return jet holes. Wow, this pool has allot of stories.

Here are some pictures.

In this photo you can see the rust and the patched up hole where the return jet used to be.

Here is a link to a huge photohttp://i.imgur.com/ojnmK.jpg

Questions,
1. Am I correct in assuming that eventually the steel will rust out and collapse the pool?
2. Is there a product that will stop the rust bleeding through the paint? Can the steel panel be ground out and replaced, replastered and painted in a patchwork? Cause I am handy as heck.
3. What is a two year solution? A vinyl liner?
4. In a longer term solution, is it possible to replace the return jets?

I got issues folks. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[crookm11]

Welcome to TFP!

I think this pool was once a vinyl liner pool. I bet the people that owned the pool before didn't want to replace the liner after it went bad so they just tried to make the best of what they had. Paint really doesn't last to long in a pool because of the water chemistry. Some plumbing experts should be around to help with the pool return issue.

 

[stlpoolnoob]

Thanks crookm11, It certainly did have a liner at one point. I would be thrilled to throw a liner in there, however, one repair person mentioned that the rust would start to show through the vinyl. I think at this point, we are looking for a 1-2 summer solution so we can save up money to come up with something more permanent.

 

[JasonLion]

Putting in a liner is easy enough. Have them cover the wall with a thin piece of foam and that will stop any possibility of rust problems.

 

[stlpoolnoob]

I talked with a pool guy, he said a liner is the only way to go. Should give me 5 or so years, but after that... No mas. We agreed that I should at least plumb in one of the old return jets. The pool guy said that when the pool was built in the 60's, they used a pipe for the returns that clamped together, no glue, just a mechanical connection. Insane. I just wish the cheap asses that owned this place before me had replumbed the pool like it should have been. Really this sucker needs 2 skimmers and 5 or 6 returns. I am working with one skimmer and a return, no wonder my water was so green last summer.

I started the dig today and can I say, holy sh#t that concrete is hard. Wow. I took a diamond blade on a angle grinder and scored my outline.

Then I tried hamering out some chips with my BFH (big f@#cking hammer). No dice. I was thinking a sledge would give me a great workout, but this is at least 4" thick. If I can borrow a sledge I will give that a shot tomorrow. If not, Monday I will rent something that will get the job done.

Should I just go all the way to the expansion joint?

 

[stlpoolnoob]

I had some time this morning so I went to Home Depot and rented this. I think it will make a huge difference to dig out this channel, lay some new pvc and have a new return coming into the pool.

The rental was for four hours, I think it took all of 30 minutes to finish.

Well worth 50 bucks. Tomorrow I will make a bunch of calls to get a liner for the pool. Then I start digging a trench back to the pump. It rained like crazy, hopefully that will be in my favor.

 

[waste]

Welcome to TFP!!

From all the "*****"s in your post, I can tell we speak the same language

The jackhammer is the only way to go for something as thick as a pool deck

Did the pool dude mention anything about having to drain the pool to "A & B" measure for the new liner? (and then wait a few weeks for it to be made and installed)

I've done this sort of repair a few dozen times, so feel *^^%$$* free to ask me for input on your project :-D

 

[stlpoolnoob]

Thanks Ted. I am certainly glad to have your advice. So a couple questions for you.

1. Should I go ahead and dig another return in the shallow end?
2. I am thinking it will improve my circulation and water quality, will I notice that big a difference?
3. One of the builders I talked with mentioned I should have at least five returns and two skimmers. Where should they all go?
4. When I plumb in the new returns, should I run two separate lines or should I run one line and branch off for the first return? (6 of one, half a dozen of another?) In a perfect world they would be looped, this ain't a perfect world.
5. What should I expect to pay for a liner installed?
6. What should I avoid doing with replacing these returns so I don't totally F*&ck up my pool and have my wife kill me?

It hasn't been that much work, maybe a days, to get where I am now. I have the next two weeks off work. I am thinking I am going to go ahead and replace the return in the shallow end as well. That way I will have 3 total returns and a skimmer.

Here is todays progress.

I hit allot of tree roots. There aren't any trees around anymore but there used to be a couple of huge Oak trees.

If I choose to dig up another return, this is how far I have to go.

Thanks for all your help. This forum has been the greatest thing to ever happen to my pool.

 

[stlpoolnoob]

I have learned a few things.
1. this is back breaking work. The next time someone comes to help you with your pool, appreciate it.
2. Were I a pool company owner I wouldn't help me. It isn't worth it. This pool is F!@#ed. Sending out laborers that could potentially destroy this pool with one wrong move = not worth it. No wonder I have had so much trouble getting people to return my phone calls.
3. I have met a few of my local pool professionals. With the exception of 1, they are morons. Why would you look at a pool with a skimmer and return that are for a liner pool and tell me my pool shouldn't have a liner? Why would you let someone fill a pool with these returns and be surprised when you had a massive leak? This was my experience when I first purchased the house.

In the past week I have worked my tail off.
Digging in this soil is horrible. There are roots everywhere. Huge roots. It got to the point where I had a shovel in one hand and my reciprocating saw in the other.

At least my cat had some fun this week. You will notice a little soon to be dead mousy in the bottom.

Alright, the trenches are dug, the plumbing is in for the new/old returns. I have never bent a rigid pipe. It was very easy.

In this photo you can see one of the new returns. I am going to sand off the rust and use some Rust-oleum on the walls here.

Man that pool pvc glue is sticky.

Finally, here is the best news I have had so far. The returns are sealed off, holding steady at 20 psi for the past 4 hours.

Tomorrow, a sand base for the return pipes and lots of sanding and primer on the metal walls.

Any thoughts, please share your experiences.

One more thing. I thought I was going to put a liner in. The last owner of the house had someone caulk the liner clip (thanks). It would take days to remove all the caulk, I am going to take my time and paint, hopefully it lasts for a year or two.

 

[stlpoolguy]

Wow, looks like a ton of work to do that trenching and pipe in the new returns!

Our pools are very similar and I may be adding a return as well. I currently have two, but would like to add a dedicated cleaner return. How difficult was it to cut through the steel walls of your pool? Was there any concrete behind the walls? Were you able to just use a a hole saw to make the cut for the opening for the return? What did you use to seal around the opening in the pool wall? Did you purchase the return fitting locally? If so, where?

 

[stlpoolnoob]

Hey there stlpoolguy.
-It was a ton of work. A ton. I must have moved 4 tons of earth and rock.

-The steel walls are nothing. I hooked up a $20 bimetal 3" hole saw thing to my hilti hammer drill and almost tore my arm off 3 times. About 3 minutes of total work for both holes.

-The concrete stops 3" above the hole. There is no concrete around the returns. The old returns lines were held together with hose clamps. Give me a break!

-I bought a hayward return fitting from prestige pools on watson. I won't comment on their service. It was $20 for the return fitting. The return fitting is sealed with silicon II. Yes. I know. That won't hold. I am getting some 2 part epoxy that will seal the opening for good from the front and the back.

Honestly, if you need it, you can borrow my hilti drill and 3" hole saw bit whenever you want it. Just remember, I expect rental payment in beer.

Now, I showed you my ugly pool. What does your baker pool look like?

 

[stlpoolguy]

Well, here it is. I just finished painting the walls yesterday and began filling last night. I'm in the process of getting bids to replaster my steps, so haven't completely filled the pool. I'm considering putting in a cleaner return close to where you see the hose coming into the pool at the top left of the picture. This is also close to where I have a panel that leaked over the winter. From the sound of the slab when I walk on it, I'm afraid it may have been significantly undermined by the leak....

 

[waste]

My God, you have done a Herculean job there

Thanks for the pics

As long as you follow the advice here, your paint will last as long as possible (sorry to hear that someone filled the track that the liner should fit into )

 

[stlpoolnoob]

I now understand why every pool company hasn't returned my phone calls. They will come out and see the pool, and then say, "oops, got someplace to be, sorry."

Waste, I need your advice.

What is best practices for painting this thing?

Right now I am going to sand the rust and paint rust-oleum over it. The follow with rubber based paint.

 

[stlpoolguy]

Before painting mine, I sanded the rust spots to bare metal, power washed all of the walls, and then primed the bare spots with rustoleum. I then did an acid wash with a 50/50 mix of water and muriatic acid and scrubbed. Rinsed with water. Then sprayed on TSP and scrubbed again. One final rinse, and then painted with an acrylic paint. I hope to get two years out of it.

My plaster basin is in pretty good shape so I didn't paint it this go around.

I may take you up on borrowing that hammer drill.

 

[stlpoolnoob]

Well all that hard work paid off stlpoolguy, great looking pool.

 

[waste]

I now understand why every pool company hasn't returned my phone calls. They will come out and see the pool, and then say, "oops, got someplace to be, sorry."

Waste, I need your advice.

What is best practices for painting this thing?

Right now I am going to sand the rust and paint rust-oleum over it. The follow with rubber based paint.

As with any painting job, preparation is the key

Follow the directions to the letter on prep and surface conditions (some paints are intolerant of ANY moisture, like dew).

Try not to paint yourself into a corner :lol:

 

[stlpoolguy]

This is a basic question, but - how did you make the connection on the outside of the pool between the return fitting and the 1.5 inch pvc? I bought a hayward 1023 return fitting today. The fitting has internal threads (for the eyeball) and external threads for the nut.

Did you install the fitting, tighten the nut, and then put a threaded coupling on the fitting? I assume you would then glue your pvc to the threaded coupling...

 

[waste]

You got it right

Pop the fitting through the hole you cut and then tighten the nut on the back. Then screw in a male adapter (using Teflon tape or other sealant) and glue your pipe into it, as you would with any other PVC joint.

 

[stlpoolnoob]

All the grinding and rust-oleum did allot to improve the appearance of the pool, however, the rust has already started to come through the paint. Oh well.