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Thread: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

  1. #1
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    Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Hey guys...

    My water "looked" great last week, with virtually no winter maintenance.... except SWG. Last year, I was a little slow bringing the CYA and salt levels up, and ended up doing the algae shock treatment. So I got ahead of the game.

    Last weekend I got the water perfect:

    FC 4
    PH 7.5
    TA 75 (Goal is 70)
    CH 270
    CYA 55 (Goal is 75... but wanted to do it in steps and test again this weekend)
    Salt 4000 (Seems hi, but that what the Zodiac LM-2 manual calls for
    Borates 60 (Goal was 50, but overshot...ok)
    Temp around 65

    Note: Looks easy to remember with 75... for ph, TA and CYA!

    The spring cleaning also involved some Jack's magic purple stuff seq, and a treatment of SeaKlear Natural Stain Remover to try and bring some nasty iron stains out of fiberglass (Didn't get a chance to order bulk ascorbic acid, refused to buy $44 Bioguard product, which I assume is vit C, and this was only $22... assume it's vit C also? no label)

    The stain treatment process resulted in low ph, less than 7, and a significant addition of PH up product (sodium carbonate) after I ran out of Washing Soda. The SeaKlear called for 1lb/10,000... perhaps it was a mistake to double it?

    Left town after the weekend, stain free and perfect balance. Return Friday to a cloudy, and milky pool with zero chlorine. SWG is weird with temp less than 65 and "add salt" light is on. Seems weird if it picked this particular time to fail, as it's been going strong for 5+ years (I run on lowest of five output settings).

    So why the milky water? Infection or side effect of adding sodium carbonate? Started a shock regime:

    Fri night sunset: zero for both FC and CC. Added bleach to bring to 17. Tested after 20 mins FC 13
    Sat 830 am: FC/CC 8/1

    So it looks like I've got something growing..... what?
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  2. #2
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    ... well after some searching around, looks like maybe I tried to do too much at once?

    Is it possible that, there is no growth, and excessive dose of SeaKlear Stain Remover is still soaking up all the chlorine? Is that an AA product?

    Also found that not a good idea shock recently after stain treatment. So I'm not gonna add more bleach without further guidance from the experts...
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  3. #3
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    So I'm not gonna add more bleach without further guidance from the experts...
    Actually, I would do the opposite. Whatever is consuming your chlorine needs to be continually dosed with chlorine until it's gone from your pool.

    Yes, you tried to do a little too much and fix several months worth of problems in too short a time span.

    I would shock the pool. You need to read pool school to get a good grasp of the shock process. You must hold your FC up at shock level by continual adding for perhaps several days until your pool is crystal clear. There are articles in Pool School to help you. While you are preforming the shock process, I would put absolutely nothing else into your pool except chlorine.

    Once you get the pool water clear and stabilized for perhaps a few days (learn how to do the overnight FC loss test in Pool School), then is the time to address the stains. You may find they have been reduced simply by the shock process.

    Lastly, a tenant of what we teach here is to know what and why you put things in your pool and what the outcome will be. I am not trying to scold but simply to remind you that simple is best.
    Dave S.
    Site Owner 42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter, No SWG
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    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  4. #4
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    There is lots going on here and some choices to make. First, sequestrant will tend to cloud up the water after metals are removed for several days. Second, with the FC level very low or zero you likely have or about to have algae. Third, there may or may not be anything wrong with the SWG, impossible to tell at this moment. Fourth, the dramatic increase in PH could have caused calcium clouding and possibly scaling in the SWG. One final thing to keep in mind is that AA eats up chlorine untill it is all out of the water.

    If you want to have the best chance of getting and keeping the stains off you want to go very easy on the chlorine. This will take quite some time, because you are almost sure to get algae that way. If you want the pool swimable soon, then shock as duraliegh recommends, it is just that is the most likely way to get the stains back, though they may well already be back from the PH increase anyway.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Thanks guys, as always u are great. Interesting difference in the two approaches offered... and I think I understand them both as well as the pro/cons of treatment options.

    Seems very probable that milky water is from stain treatment remnants, and PH up dose. Seems low chlorine is from excessive AA dose and it's still eating up chlorine. My plan for now:

    1. Will attempt to keep FC at moderate levels and not shock for fear of bringing back the iron stains.

    2. Will rinse cartridge and run pump continuously to see if it clears up.

    3. Algacide just in case FC drops too low.

    4. Turn off SWG at night and see if I get another drop

    Sound good? Thanks again....
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  6. #6
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Yes, sounds like a good plan of action
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    ...maybe duraleigh had a better plan. Along with the above, I added some clarifier I had from a while back (prior to BBB method)... and it did seem to clear up. FC levels after adding some bleach this am where around 13. Prior to sunset, with SWG on superchlorinate, level read about 11.

    Although It was less milky, and I could see the bottom better, it has a greenish tent.

    Had an old bottle of banish and added 16 oz, and will bring back up to shock level at sunset.

    edit: because 55 cya reading was subjective, I bumped up to 60 and FC shock target of 18. Math error on adding bleach and should be around 20 now as the sun sets. Will keep at 18 several times tomorrow, but real low on 871 reagent. Do they have that at pool stores? **** the iron stains for now....
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  8. #8
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Had an old bottle of banish and added 16 oz
    WHY?
    Lastly, a tenant of what we teach here is to know what and why you put things in your pool and what the outcome will be. I am not trying to scold but simply to remind you that simple is best.
    I'm sorry to be harsh but I want to emphasize to you you are tossing things in your pool without knowing what they will do and hoping for good results. That won't work.
    Dave S.
    Site Owner 42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter, No SWG
    TFTestkits owner
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  9. #9
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    I think it is a little harsh. I've been here a long time and I have intensely read the bulk of the schooling. This seemed like a different situation, and I was reluctant to go back to full shock level and put the iron back in the fiberglass. The possibility of cloudiness being caused by metal and/or calcium fallout seemed a real possibility.... and I wouldn't have gone toward the shock route if things didn't pick up a green tent this afternoon (and the chlorine has been high since I got home.) Yes it only takes a quick moment of opportunity.

    The clarifier (which was pre BBB) was specifically recommended for a similar situation and worked! I added the banish (pre BBB) thinking maybe I wouldn't need to shock more and it might be able to prevent anything from taking root.

    I realize the clarifiers/flocks are overpriced, usually innefective scams for the most part. But they where left over.... any harm in that?

    I certainly appreciate your help and all the others, and you appear to have been right in this case. But please don't treat me like the newb here who runs to the pool store to buy all the **** and throw it in the pool. While certainly not as knowledgeable as you and the other here I do have a physics degree and have read here very thoroughly over the years.

    Thanks again.

    Edit: not all situations are equal. Mine will be self sufficient, as I am almost always away during the week... and will leave early Monday am and not return until Thursday afternoon. So I won't be able to effectively do the algae shock, overnight, shock level overnight routine.
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  10. #10
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    My apologies.

    One point of clarification.....I wasn't "right".

    I suggested one path to help you get your pool straightened out and Jason offered you two paths....one of which was the same as I suggested.
    Dave S.
    Site Owner 42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter, No SWG
    TFTestkits owner
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. #11
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Morning,

    Appears that FC level held at 20 overnight.... with SWG on superchlorinate though. Water is much clearer, but still has green tent. Also has a few soapy looking bubbles on surface (Is that some byproduct of clarifier/algacide that I mistakenly added)?

    Took 2 readings. 1 with sample diluted 1:1 with distilled water. Both gave roughly same results... so maybe I can make my 871 last a bit longer.

    The SWG, Zodiac LM2-24, is rated for 25,000 gal pool and 24g/hr. Is the output at the max selected level the same as the superchlorinate button... or does superchlorinate go higher than max?

    Is there a relationship between the SWG output of 24g/hr and an equivalent amount of adding bleach? Just trying to get an idea of how much my FC would have dropped if SWG wasn't on over night.

    Thanks again.
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  12. #12
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Quote Originally Posted by akenis
    Is there a relationship between the SWG output of 24g/hr and an equivalent amount of adding bleach? Just trying to get an idea of how much my FC would have dropped if SWG wasn't on over night.
    24 grams of chlorine per hour in 25,000 gallons (94,635 liters) is 24*1000/94635 = 0.25 ppm FC per hour. So if "overnight" means 12 hours, then that's 3 ppm FC so if the FC didn't drop, then you would have lost 3 ppm FC overnight had the SWG not been running.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Thanks Chem Geek. Not quite sure how multipy by 1,000 works, but it's the same as dividing by 1000 g/L to achieve a dimensionless unit.

    Same logic on my 10K gallons yields .63 ppm/hr, or 7.6 ppm overnight! And at 60 CYA, it would take 1 gal and 1 qt of 6% bleach.

    Anyway, water looked better by Sunday afternoon. With burnoff, FC went down to about 18 by Sunday evening... still at shock level.

    Any idea if "super chlorinate" level is the same as manually selecting level 5? Had to leave this am, and left swg on 5, and set pump to run about 20 hrs/day. Hope the green will be well gone when I return Thurs.

    This raises the questions:

    1. If there was nothing consuming FC and no burnoff, would FC continue to rise, or would efficiency taper off as FC rose?

    2. Does FC burnoff at a faster rate at higher concentrations?

    3. Wanna take a guess at what my FC will be by Thursday afternoon? LOL!

    Thanks
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

  14. #14
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    The factor of 1000 is due to 1000 milligrams per gram since ppm is milligrams per liter.

    Super-chlorinate probably just keeps it on the maximum 100% on-time setting for some period of time, possibly 24 hours. If level 5 is the maximum, then it should be similar except that setting a specific level would be permanent until you changed it.

    FC declines in a proportional rate to the active chlorine level, so roughly proportional to the FC/CYA ratio. The decline rate in sunlight is more complicated since higher CYA levels have an additional "shielding" effect of lower depths beyond that associated with the active chlorine level. Usually, a shock level of chlorine which is roughly 4 times the minimum active chlorine level, has <= 1 ppm FC drop overnight. There is also an effect of temperature so very warm pools will have higher loss rates (spas are even higher, of course).

    The loss of FC from sunlight usually dwarfs other FC losses unless you've got algae or organics in the pool.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. #15

    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    Also has a few soapy looking bubbles on surface (Is that some byproduct of clarifier/algacide that I mistakenly added)?





    I have similar outcome. What is this mean?
    Jovian, Pool owner since 2011
    Specs: 30k Gallons, Sand Filter, IG, Vinyl, Filter: Hayward S244T, Pump: Hayward 1.5 HP SP2610X15

  16. #16
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    Re: Milky and Cloudy Water after Balance and Stain Removal

    It's probably from the algaecide if it was inexpensive as most linear quat algaecides are. They can foam. It will dissipate over time as the chlorine breaks down the algaecide -- should clear up in less than a week.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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