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Thread: Ozone Joes??

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    Ozone Joes??

    Does anyone have any experience with this product?

    http://www.ozonejoes.com/

    I friend at work had it installed when his pool was put in last year and he swears by it. Was thinking of using it in my pool but I'm not sure if it's worth it or not.
    Nashville, TN, 24' above ground 13,500 gallons, 300lb sand filter

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Bah. The site is full of misleading information. Ozone can help with indoor pools, but is completely unnecessary with an outdoor pool exposed to sunlight.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    That's why I posted here before wasting $400+ dollars on it...lol. I'm already having to replace my liner this year so I think I'm gonna pass on it.
    Nashville, TN, 24' above ground 13,500 gallons, 300lb sand filter

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Hmmmm.... I'm wondering why the smallest unit they offer has the same electrical wattage as the largest one Just sayin'
    12,800 gallon IG plaster kidney-shaped pool, waterslide, 800 gallon spa.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by guamguy
    Hmmmm.... I'm wondering why the smallest unit they offer has the same electrical wattage as the largest one Just sayin'
    Actually there is no wattage posted on http://www.ozonejoes.com However the ballast in rush current specs are posted. Typical lamp wattages range from 8 watts (spa unit) to 40 watts (OJ-65 65,000 gallon pool units). Thank you for pointing this out. We will reflect the wattages in future spec sheets.

    Dennis Mino
    Ozone Joe"s

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    Bah. The site is full of lies. Ozone can help with indoor pools, but is completely unnecessary with an outdoor pool exposed to sunlight.
    All very true!
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    The idea of an ozone system makes perfect sense to me. Even the gurus here, chem geek, JasonLion, & a few others who say they are unnecessary agree that the units do work (they produce ozone) & that ozone is a more powerful oxidizer than chlorine.

    So to me, it only makes sense that ozone generators should be able to find a place in residential pool system.

    I took the ozonator option on my pool build. $400 was nothing compared to the overall cost of the install, $50,000, & I was curious.

    I am having trouble now, getting my new install to be trouble free, but once I get the routine down, I plan to do some experiments.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    Bah. The site is full of lies. Ozone can help with indoor pools, but is completely unnecessary with an outdoor pool exposed to sunlight.
    WOW.. I have to totally disagree with the "site is full of lies" statement.

    Ozone helps with all types of water features whether swimming pools, spas, wastewater treatment, drinking water, beverage bootling water, and so on.

    Ozone Joe's Ozonators http://www.ozonejoes.com don't much care whether the application is an indoor or outdoor pool in regards to making water crystal clear, odor free, better feeling, in addition to not requiring so many harmful chemicals. Ozone is not a residual sanitizer, it is a gas, and in slight chance there are no contaminents to destroy it is self destructive in 20 minutes or so. As such a minor residual sanitizer is still required to help fight algae blooms.

    The fact Ozone helps reduce or eliminate chloramines means a better and more healthy swimming experience for the swimmer. Typically no more red eyes, and most importantly the chloramine off-gas at water surface which is known to cause respiratory problems, especially in children, is drastically reduced or totally eliminated depending upon bather load.

    Sunlight does not act as ozone does. If it did, we may just have contaminent free air.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    The problem with it is there is no residual ozone. You would need to have a tank of pool water that was sequestered for the "ozonation" to do any good. Once the water flows through the cell, it's bye bye ozone.
    You'ed do better to keep the money for the ozonator in your pocket and save it to buy good old bleach. Nothing better than plain old chlorine to sanitize the pool as well as keep the algea away.
    Ozone is basically another gimick. For an indoor pool, they asr more useful. for an outdoor pool, meh, waste of money really.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by ozonejoes

    WOW.. I have to totally disagree with the "site is full of lies" statement.

    .
    Lets just start here:

    •Decreased Chemical Usage - As much as 90% of chemicals used can be elminated.

    Ok, what can we eliminate?
    •Healthier Water - reduction of harmful chemicals promotes a healthy swimming environment
    Care to back that up with real science?
    •Better Water Clarity - Ozone makes water crystal clear
    Huh?
    •Smoother Water Feel - Ozone helps elminate metals in your water

    I dont think so.

    Ozone systems in outdoor pools are a waste of money.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    The problem with it is there is no residual ozone. You would need to have a tank of pool water that was sequestered for the "ozonation" to do any good. Once the water flows through the cell, it's bye bye ozone.
    You'ed do better to keep the money for the ozonator in your pocket and save it to buy good old bleach. Nothing better than plain old chlorine to sanitize the pool as well as keep the algea away.
    Ozone is basically another gimick. For an indoor pool, they asr more useful. for an outdoor pool, meh, waste of money really.
    I don't want to be rude, however it is obvious you have no familiarity with ozone. Water dos not flow through an ozone cell. Ozone is a gas that is created in a chamber whether by high current CD (Corona Discharge) or by lamps that replicate the wave length (185nm)in which the Sun creates our outer Ozone layer. In a residential pool application, ambient air is drawn across a lamp or through a CD chamber creating ozone gas O3 from the O2 Oxygen in air (approx-17-19%). The ozone gas is then introduced into the pool water via a venturi injector or via the drain plug on pool pump. Ozone is so fast reacting against organics (bather load) and viruses, etc. that it really doesn't survive long. When Ozone ozxidizes contaminents by shedding the third loosely bonded atom, what is left is something dead/disinigrated/burned/whatever and regular O2.

    There are several write-ups on our site and many others to include government sites NIH, CDC, etc. discussing the benefits of ozone as it relates to water. If you look at our install manual, or Alternative Sanitizer document, they attempt to make folks familiar with ozone. And by the way they truthful.

    Another point--many folks throw chlorine at things. It is pretty harmful stuff.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    This product and the pros and cons of ozone have been discussed frequently on this forum. I have no interest in the product (or the discussion) myself but it can be
    an interesting, educational topic IF it is kept civil.

    As the absolute best swimming pool forum on the net, we should all take pride in being part of the absolute best forum manners as well.

    Anything less and I can promise one of the Moderators will take a look, lock the thread and delete all offensive posts.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Ozone does it's best work in a positive flow-through system, such as in water treatment, where the water (ALL the water) must pass through the ozone system, and then goes on to it's use point. The outbound water is sanitized. As long as it does not come into contact with new contaminates, it will stay that way.
    A pool is a recirculating system, and all treated water is re-introduced back into the same reservoir from which it was taken, and is placed DIRECTLY back into contact with all the contaminants that we seek to remove. In this situation, one really needs some residual sanitizer to prevent re-contaminiation. Ozone alone cannot do this. Consequently, there is still a need for chlorine (or bromine, or baqua...).
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Welcome to TFP

    How does an ozone sytem remove metals from pool water?

    Chlorine in outdoor residential pools is mainly consumed by UV, not contaminents or bacteria. How does ozone reduce my chlorine usage attributed to this fact, in an outdoor pool?

    Please site specific third party references to back-up your answers. Posting links and sending folks back to your commericial website is considered selling and is not allowed per our forum rules.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Ozone isn't what I would call a gimmick. It is a valuable player in certain kinds of pools. Ozone is especially useful in spas that use chlorine and in outdoor commercial pools. Ozone is oxidizer but not a sanitizer. Chlorine is both an oxidizer and a sanitizer. In commercial pools and spas of all kinds there can be a lot of CC that accumulates, more than chlorine alone is able to deal with. In those situations, ozone (or UV) is a very handy addition to help keep the CC level under control.

    You have to have a sanitizer. Assuming you use chlorine as your sanitizer, it is also an oxidizer. In an outdoor residential pool, things that need oxidizing, mostly CC, are fairly rare and normal sanitizing levels of chlorine, plus sunlight, have no problem keeping up with the required oxidizing. Thus, there is little for the ozone to do.

    The only normal exception in a residential pool would be a major pool party. Even then, the benefit is minimal, since a typical residential pool normally has several days to recover from a pool party, and chlorine will catch up in a couple of days. Unless you frequently throw major pool parties on consecutive days, there really isn't much of anything for the ozone to do.

    Spas and commercial pools are different because they have many people swimming compared to the amount of water they hold. Because of that, CC levels (and levels of other things that need oxidizing) are high and sanitizing levels of chlorine frequently can not keep up with the oxidizing load. In those situations, having something like ozone (or UV) can be very handy.

    Ozone normally breaks down very quickly, and a proper install is designed for it to break down before it gets into the open pool water. If it survives into the open pool water it can outgas and cause respiratory problems. Because of this, ozone only acts on the water as it is passing through the equipment pad area (and typically some of the piping on the way back to the pool). That means ozone has little effect on things like algae, which grow in the bulk pool water and reinfect the water returning from the pump fairly quickly.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    I'm no expert. But I've been in & around many pools where the smell of chloramines is unbearable. I have been in pools that were fine before I and several others entered, but several hours later.... fumes.

    I know. More chlorine is the correct answer. But what's wrong with a safety net?

    Ozone makes water good enough to drink, surely it makes it good enough for a pool. I understand it can not & will not replace chlorine as the primary sanitizer.
    Custom Cloud shaped 19'x35' - Raised Spa 6' diameter
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderkyss


    Ozone makes water good enough to drink, surely it makes it good enough for a pool. .
    Because ozone purification for drinking water is done in a tank with sequestered water. Once the water is subjected to the ozone, its delivered to the point of use. Pool water is constantly recirculated. Once the water that has been subjected to the ozone treatment is returned to the bulk pool water, it is immediately exposed to whatever nasties are in the bulk pool; there is no residual. It takes on average 8 hours to turn the pool over and most likely longer for every drop to be exposed to the ozone again. So running an ozone system on an outdoor pool exposed to the environment is doing little. Like Jason said, maybe in a commercial pool it could help oxidize the increased CC, but I'd argue MPS would be a better route there, but thats just my opinion, i'm sure someone could, and proably will, argue the other way. But for a residential outdoor pool, save you money.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderkyss
    I'm no expert. But I've been in & around many pools where the smell of chloramines is unbearable. I have been in pools that were fine before I and several others entered, but several hours later.... fumes.
    Are you talking about commercial/public pools or poorly-maintained residential pools? You aren't talking about your own pool, are you? In low bather-load residential outdoor pools properly maintained using chlorine, you don't have lots of chloramines. I almost always measure <= 0.2 ppm CC even though my wife uses our 16,000 gallon pool every day for about an hour. Of course, that's low bather load, but that's the point.

    In a low bather-load pool or even in a spa only used once or twice a week, ozone will INCREASE the chlorine demand because ozone oxidizes chlorine to chloride and chlorate. This is seen over and over again in residential spas where high bather-load spas used every day or two have roughly half the amount of chlorine demand but those used infrequently have the chlorine demand roughly double.
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b

    Chlorine in outdoor residential pools is mainly consumed by UV, not contaminents or bacteria. How does ozone reduce my chlorine usage attributed to this fact, in an outdoor pool?
    I think the idea is that the chlorine we put in our pools, thinking the BBB troublefree way, performs two functions. Sanitation & oxidation. Ozone is purely an oxidizer, so it "relieves" the chlorine of the oxidation function.

    However, the BBB gurus have noted in another thread that you can't tell the chlorine not to oxidize CCs & it has no idea if there is an ozone generator at the equipment pad. They have also formulated only a small amount of the chlorine you put in your pool is to provide the oxidation function.

    But I've seen guys with numbers like FC: 0.5, CC: 1.5 an ozonator could make that FC: 0.5, CC: 0.0 If FC: 0.5 is enough to sanitize a pool, then the pool is still safe. I know CYA makes it impossible to sanitize a pool with 0.5ppm of FC... but what if all you need to sanitize your pool is 4ppm at your CYA level, but the suggested number is 6ppm or 7ppm to provide enough chlorine to oxidize the CCS.

    If the ozonator can take the place of the extra 2 or 3ppm for oxidation & you only have to maintain the 4ppm, would that be of any benefit?

    At the same time, once you get your FC to the desired level... 7ppm you are pretty much only maintaining the 2 or 3ppm your pool uses daily..... so it's probably the same thing.
    Custom Cloud shaped 19'x35' - Raised Spa 6' diameter
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    Re: Ozone Joes??

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderkyss
    I'm no expert. But I've been in & around many pools where the smell of chloramines is unbearable. I have been in pools that were fine before I and several others entered, but several hours later.... fumes.
    Are you talking about commercial/public pools or poorly-maintained residential pools? You aren't talking about your own pool, are you? In low bather-load residential outdoor pools properly maintained using chlorine, you don't lots of chloramines. I almost always measure <= 0.2 ppm CC even though my wife uses our 16,000 gallon pool every day for about an hour. Of course, that's low bather load, but that's the point.
    I'm not talking about my pool. I haven't had it long enough to experience it, but that is one of the things I hope to avoid.

    I've been in a public pools that reaked of that smell most people associate with too much chlorine. After being here for a while, I've come to the conclusion that smell was actually chlorimines.

    I have been in residential pools at pool parties where the water was fine, but after a couple of hours you got the smell & the burning eyes.
    Custom Cloud shaped 19'x35' - Raised Spa 6' diameter
    Rainbow 320 Inline Chlorinator - Paramount Clear O3 Ozone Generator
    Hayward C4025 Cartridge Filter (Hayward CX880XRE) - Hayward Tristar 2 speed pump
    Hayward H400Fdn Heater, Hayward GVA-24 (valve actuators)

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