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Thread: What to do first???

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    What to do first???

    I had a pool put in last sping to battle the wicked Tennessee heat {never experienced a summer in the south before} and it was great...I was deployed to Afghanistan however and the pool sat uncovered all fall and winter, so when I returned home recent;y, the water was black...
    I started the pump, added "shock" to it, and got most of the leaves out....The water is now green, but not getting any better...I'm so glad I found this forum!!! I've been doing some extensive reading and I'm ready to tackle the algae
    I'm headed out tomorrow morning to purchase bleach, Muriatic Acid, and CYA.
    The only problem is, I don't know where to start...I know I have to lower my ph from 8.8 to 7.2, and raise my CYA from 0 to 30, but I'm not sure which one to do first...Also, should I add liquid CYA or powdered CYA? Can I add all 3 chemical at once, or do i have to add each seperately? how long do i have to wait in between adding? This seems to be an awesome site, and I can't wait to hear what all you pool guru's have to say...summer's around the corner and I want to swim soon!!!

    Here's my water numbers if that helps ya guys, also included is what the calculator recommends...It's an 18x33 Oval

    PH 8.8 add 39oz 31% muriatic acid to lower to 7.2
    TA 79 OK
    FC 0 add 3 gallons 6% bleach to raise FC to shock level 12ppm, add more every hour
    CH 200 OK
    CYA 0 add 1 gallon to raise to 30ppm

    Please give me any input you feel necessary as this is all somewhat new to me...
    Thanks
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
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    crookm11's Avatar
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    Re: What to do first???

    Welcome to TFP!! and also welcome back from Afghanistan!!!
    I retire from the Army next year. On my last deployment I spent 15 months in Kuwait.
    To battle the algea you are going to need a lot of chlorine. You will need to shock the pool and hold the shock level until you pass the overnight chlorine loss test. Read directions here Overnight Chlorine Test / How to Shock a Pool. With a CYA of 0 you will lose a lot of FC during the day due to UV from the sun. 30 ppm is a good start for CYA. The shock level is not to high and will also provide some UV protection from the sun during the day and will help out the shock process. I just gave you a few links but you should still read Pool School. Hope this puts you in the right direction.
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    Re: What to do first???

    "The only problem is, I don't know where to start...I know I have to lower my ph from 8.8 to 7.2,
    correct, do that 1st/ now
    and raise my CYA from 0 to 30,
    correct
    but I'm not sure which one to do first
    pH
    ...Also, should I add liquid CYA or powdered CYA?
    Makes no difference, powdered is cheaper, put it in a sock & put that sock in front of the returns (nylon string around a brick or whatever on the deck), squeeze the sock a few times a day to help dispense it Can I add all 3 chemical at once, or do i have to add each seperately?
    pH now, it'll correct the pH in about half an hour
    how long do i have to wait in between adding?
    No need to wait the half hour but you can, I usually do or maybe 15 min ( at opening like you, not during the season when all is well)
    Here's my water numbers if that helps ya guys, also included is what the calculator recommends...It's an 18x33 Oval

    PH 8.8 add 39oz 31% muriatic acid to lower to 7.2
    TA 79 OK
    FC 0 add 3 gallons 6% bleach to raise FC to shock level 12ppm, add more every hour
    CH 200 OK
    CYA 0 add 1 gallon to raise to 30ppm

    I haven't the time to check you figures

    Please give me any input you feel necessary as this is all somewhat new to me...
    You have the proper test kit? Absolutely critical!
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: What to do first???

    What he said.

    pH first. Bleach works better at a lower pH. Incidently, pool calculator carries the disclaimer:
    Note: pH calculations are not exact. These numbers are only suggestive of the relative magnitude of the pH change you can expect. Small changes, +-0.4, with pH between 7.2-7.8, TA around 80-120, and Borate near zero will be approximately correct. The further you go from those ranges the less these pH changes will correspond to reality.
    So don't freak out if you add the acid and it's still high. Plus, 8.8 is probably off the scale, so it may be even worse than that. Add acid, let things circulate. Brush some (wall whale brush really mixes things up) and recheck. Add more acid if needed. While you're waiting, you can fumble around weighing out CYA and tying it in a sock, all that stuff.

    Then start pouring bleach.

    You really need a good test kit for this. Either K-2006 ot TF100 with the FAS-DPD chlorine test.
    No trying to match colors in variable light. It's either pink or it's clear, and if in doubt, another drop will tell you.
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    Re: What to do first???

    One more thing to remember it is almost impossible to lower CYA without water replacement, so go slow adding it, and remember it can take a week or more after you add it for it to fully read on a test.

    Like others have said you need to raise the chlorine to shock levels and keep it there until you kill off all the algae, any time you let the chlorine level drop the algae will start reproducing faster than the chlorine can kill it off, so you can quickly find yourself back a square one..
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: What to do first???

    Thanks for all the input, I feel like I have a good understanding of how this process works and the importance of a balanced pool...I purchased all my chemicals {yet to get a good test kit, but a pool store is down the street so i can get it tested regularly} and am about to start the algae onslaught...Already poured the muriatic acid, boy does that stuff smell nasty...
    I'll keep you posted on my progress and I'll post some new numbers later...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, just want to make sure I understand the overnight FC test...The reason you test at night and early in the morning is to see if you've lost FC overnight due to algae, and you do it at night b/c there's no sunlight available to use up any FC...so when you check in the morning and you still have the same FC level, that means that you've defeated the algae {for the time being}...Is that correct?

    Thanks again for all the help
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
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    Re: What to do first???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift_Nashville
    Correct me if I'm wrong, just want to make sure I understand the overnight FC test...The reason you test at night and early in the morning is to see if you've lost FC overnight due to algae, and you do it at night b/c there's no sunlight available to use up any FC...so when you check in the morning and you still have the same FC level, that means that you've defeated the algae {for the time being}...Is that correct?
    Exactly right!
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    Re: What to do first???

    You really need at least a FAS-DPD Chlorine test to shock a pool with visible algae, otherwise your flying blind with no way to know if your maintaining shock levels. This is particularly a concern if you have a vinyl pool as high chlorine levels can bleach the color out of the liner, so shocking becomes a balancing act, not a higher the better regardless of cost approach.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: What to do first???

    Thanks for all the input...I worked hard all day yesterday, and my pool went from a nasty green to a bright blue/green...It turned milky due to all the dead algae and I've been running the pump on high...I didn't quite pass the overnight test {last night was 10ppm, and this morning was 6ppm} but what an amazing difference...Almost makes me wanna jump in, lol...

    Couple more questions though...

    Is it normal for it to take a few days to clear the dead algae?
    Are flock treatments safe for the pool, or do they cause their own problems as well?

    I'd like the pool to be ready for the weekend, but I want to do this correctly THE FIRST TIME...

    Thanks again!
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
    2 Spd / 2HP Millenium Pump w/ sand filter

    My other baby: 2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX10 Special Edition- KR Tuned Carbon Fiber/Titanium exhaust, Fren Tubo Carbon Brake Line, ASV shorty levers, DDM tuning 6K low 3K high, Healtech GI Pro w/ATRE, SuperSprox -1+2...Go Team Green!
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    Re: What to do first???

    Yes, taking a couple of days is normal.

    Floc treatments won't damage anything, but I don't recommend them. Floc is temperamental, often it works, sometimes it doesn't. Floc requires turning off the pump for at least overnight, and if you haven't killed all of the algae that can allow the algae to get going again. Floc also requires that you be able to vacuum to waste, and dumps a fair bit of water. It is also a fair bit of work and some expense to do something the filter can do on it's own. If you are in a huge hurry, then floc is your best option, despite the challenges.
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    Re: What to do first???

    Taking days to clear is normal, you have not mentioned what type of filter you have, if it is a sand filter it is normal for it to take longer to clear.

    Ike
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    Re: What to do first???

    S_N,

    It is a pleasure to see your progress. Not only with the pool but your knowledge of pool chemistry as well. Nice work!

    You'll get impatient at this point....everyone does. Keep the faith, keep shock level FC in the pool, run the pump 24/7 and have a couple of chilled beverages on standby in case your faith sags just a little while your pool continues to clear.
    Dave S.
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    Re: What to do first???

    Ok, I'm not going to do the floc treatment...I read about it very briefly and it seemed like it may work and help things along...But that's what the rest of the chemicals at the pool store's supposed to do. yet I had absolutely zero luck with that, and they wanted me to buy a bunch of at least 5 or 6 different products...So I'll just go the old fashioned route, which is Patience...

    I can wait, but you guys are right, this is the point where one gets impatient, haha, guess I'll just have to go get some "resfreshments" and sit outside the pool...BTW, I have a millenium pump/ sand filter, so I won't be alarmed if it takes a few days

    wish I would've taken some pictures of the progress to show how well this is working...But I guess you guys already know that from being on this site as well.
    My friends that have been over tell me right away that I'm gonna jack up my pool with bleach, and that instead I should be using chemicals made especially for pools such as chlorine...I just laugh and ask them if my method looks like it's working...they don't have much to say then...
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
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    My other baby: 2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX10 Special Edition- KR Tuned Carbon Fiber/Titanium exhaust, Fren Tubo Carbon Brake Line, ASV shorty levers, DDM tuning 6K low 3K high, Healtech GI Pro w/ATRE, SuperSprox -1+2...Go Team Green!
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    Re: What to do first???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shift_Nashville
    Ok, I'm not going to do the floc treatment...I read about it very briefly and it seemed like it may work and help things along...But that's what the rest of the chemicals at the pool store's supposed to do. yet I had absolutely zero luck with that, and they wanted me to buy a bunch of at least 5 or 6 different products.
    Now there's a quote!

    Maybe we need a sticky thread to park all these classics!
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    Re: What to do first???

    For any of the people that bring up designed for pool use, show them this:

    http://www.clorox.com/pdf/5813-50_service-bulletins.pdf
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: What to do first???

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    For any of the people that bring up designed for pool use, show them this:

    http://www.clorox.com/pdf/5813-50_service-bulletins.pdf
    Nice...Is that on the back of the actual bottles? I'll go check that out...
    But honestly, before I found this site, I woulda thought someone was crazy for putting bleach in their pool..I had no idea that bleach and chlorine are both the same active ingredient...
    An acquaintance told me he poured a few gallons of bleach in his pool to open it up every year...So I decided to do a lil research, and I came across TFP...So glad I did, it would have taken me all summer to clean it based on the local pool shop recommendations....
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
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    My other baby: 2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX10 Special Edition- KR Tuned Carbon Fiber/Titanium exhaust, Fren Tubo Carbon Brake Line, ASV shorty levers, DDM tuning 6K low 3K high, Healtech GI Pro w/ATRE, SuperSprox -1+2...Go Team Green!
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    Re: What to do first???

    OK....The first couple days went amazing...The water turned from dark swampy green to bright blue...I've been dilligently maintaining / cleaning, but progress seems to be really slowing...Maybe it's just me being impatient, or maybe I need to add another tactic to this battle???
    The water is bright and blue, but the dead algae is slow to clear up out of the water...Visibility maybe increases a half inch a day to an inch a day, but I still can't see down to even the second step...I can see the outline of it, but not see it clearly, same thing with the third step.
    I started this last Sunday, and it's now Thursday, so I guess it just feels like its been longer than it really has...

    Is it normal to take a week or more to clear all the way up???
    Don't have the newest numbers yet, but I'll post up the water numbers after I test next...
    Thanks
    15X30 Oval Esther Williams A/G
    2 Spd / 2HP Millenium Pump w/ sand filter

    My other baby: 2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX10 Special Edition- KR Tuned Carbon Fiber/Titanium exhaust, Fren Tubo Carbon Brake Line, ASV shorty levers, DDM tuning 6K low 3K high, Healtech GI Pro w/ATRE, SuperSprox -1+2...Go Team Green!
    2009 Maxton Mile - 197 MPH
    2011 Maxton Mile - Gonna break the 200mph mark this year

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    Re: What to do first???

    Yes, the one disadvantage of sand filters is that they can often take a week or more to clean up the water after an algae problem. As long as you see continued improvement each day you are doing fine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: What to do first???

    2 suggestions to speed it up -
    1) make sure shock level of chlorine is maintained
    2) throw some DE into your sand filter through one of the skimmer baskets (not sure how much, but 2-3lbs should do it). This will coat the sand and strain the finer particles faster.

    Best of luck!
    33k Gunite, CompuPool CPSC48 SWG, Sta-Rite System 3 DE, 2.25hp dual-speed, POOLVERGNUEGEN Pressure-side

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