Green to Clean

[Poolschoolgrad]

Green to Clean
From the MSDS
Disodiumsalt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate
Chem Geek- what is this stuff and how does it effect our pool water?

 

[dorpo75]

I am no Chem Geek for sure, but I did some checking on the web and came up with this information:

" PRODUCT INFORMATION

TRADE NAME: YELLOW OUT
CHEMICAL NAME:
SYNONYMS:
CHEMICAL FAMILY: Inorganic and organic salts
SECTION II: INGREDIENTS
Disodium salt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate
100% (active ingredient) "

That is directly from this web page http://www.poolwater.com/msds/all/Coral ... %20Out.pdf

If I have incorrectly posted a web page, please remove the link or let me know the proper way to post a link and I'll be glad to oblige.

 

[JamesW]

Coral Seas Yellow Out (MSDS) and Coral Seas Green to Clean (MSDS) both have only a single ingredient of "Disodium salt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate" which is a disodium salt of EDTA with ammonium sulfate. EDTA is sometimes used as a metal sequestrant, though it also has some algae inhibiting properties, but the ammonium sulfate along with chlorine results in monochloramine which kills algae. Both of these will create a significant chlorine demand, but which will drop in matter of days to a week (the monochloramine can be removed with chlorine in hours, but the EDTA takes longer). post192433.html

The ammonia (ammonium) forms monochloramine, which is not moderated by cyanuric acid. People get algae because they do not maintain enough chlorine relative to their cyanuric acid level. This is more common when the cyanuric acid is high. The ammonia is not necessary to clear the pool of algae. You just have to shock the pool to the proper shock level for your cyanuric acid level.

pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

 

[JasonLion]

JamesW has it, that fancy chemical is simply a way to add ammonia. Fighting algae with ammonia is a little tricky, you need to add enough chlorine to form monochloramine, but not enough to continue breaking it down fully. Then, after it has killed the algae, you need to add lots more chlorine to get rid of the monochloramine (which is CC). The whole process has some risks, specifically when you don't add the right amounts of chlorine at the right times. Thus it completely fails the "trouble free" test.

The big advantage of this approach is that it works when CYA is very high. If you maintain CYA at an appropriate level then there is no point in using this product. And if CYA is too high, then you are better off lowering CYA as a first step and not using this product. The only time this is a big win and worth the trouble is when CYA is really high and there is some compelling reason not to lower CYA.

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

In a pool with low or very low CYA concentration, would the product be beneficial?

The product would be beneficial to clear a pool with extremely high CYA level, but the ammonium sulfate would in no way reduce the CYA?

Within a couple of weeks, the EDTA and the ammonium sulfate level would decline and the Chlorine would again not be able to function because of the high CYA levels?
A couple more weeks of warm weather with the chlorine concentration that is too low in relation to the CYA level and the algae bloom returns.
Then we would need to purchase more of the product and start the process again

If we fix the real problem of high CYA, and maintain the proper Chlorine/CYA level, then there would be no need for these "work around" products?

 

[JasonLion]

In a pool with very low CYA these products are useless, chlorine alone is just as good and much easier to use.

These products will not change the CYA level up or down. They do add a little sulfate to the water, but that isn't normally an issue.

It is the ammonia, which combines with chlorine to form monochloramine, that is the active ingredient. The sulfate and EDTA are irrelevant. The effect goes away as soon as you add the second dose of chlorine, breaking down the monochloramine, well before weeks have gone by. CYA remains high the entire time, it is simply that CYA has no effect on monochloramine, which kills algae regardless of CYA just as well as chlorine when it isn't being restrained by CYA.

Yes, the high CYA level is a problem, and remains a problem, before and after the use of these products. They sell well because many people don't know that, have no idea what their CYA level is and simply notice that chlorine isn't working like it "should".

Correct, appropriate CYA levels make these products completely irrelevant.

One additional thing to be aware of, there are two very similar product lines that actually work in completely different ways and are both only useful when CYA is really high and you can't lower it. Green to Clean, Yellow Out, and several others work using ammonia. The other family, The Yellow Stuff, Yellow Klear, Yellow Treat, and others, work using sodium bromide.

The sodium bromide is activated to bromine with chlorine which again kills algae without being affected by CYA levels. However these products are more troublesome because the bromine turns back into bromide which remains in the water, effectively transforming the pool into a bromine/bromide pool for years to come. Bromine breaks down from sunlight more quickly than chlorine with CYA and there isn't anything like CYA that you can use to compensate, so your chlorine demand goes up more or less permanently.

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

Thanks for the excellent explanation.

Have had several people tell me how good these products worked, but I did not understand enough about the products to know when, why or how they work.

 

[Bowlin]

Green to clean in a word sucks!!!!! I was getting realy realy annoyed system wasn't turning to a clear pool now its greener than ever. And I am gonna purchase a cover and call it a year. I have put about 400.00 into my pool this year and nothing. I have a NFP instead of a tfp pool. No Fun Pool

 

[mudireddy]

Then why are there so many positive reviews dating
That the product works

 

[Donldson]

Same reason a bunch of people swear you get better mileage if you stick a magnet on your fuel line. Some reviews are outright bought and paid for, some may have dumped it in with a bunch of chlorine and attributed the clearing to the wrong product, and some are just from people who don't like admitting they got duped. It's human nature to refuse to believe you could be wrong, we are all guilty of that. Bottom line, everything JasonLion said about the product is true. It can potentially help in very specific situations but is nothing but a band-aid masking the real issue. TFP is about fixing the problems in a pool, not just hiding them.

 

[RonsPlc]

Welcome to MARKETING!