Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Green to Clean

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    317

    Green to Clean

    Green to Clean
    From the MSDS
    Disodiumsalt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate
    Chem Geek- what is this stuff and how does it effect our pool water?
    poolschoolgrad

    20x40 free-form IG vinyl, 1hp Hayward superpump, Hayward pro grid DE filter, Raypak heatpump, Goldline Aquarite SWCG, Polaris 280 with booster, and tested using a Taylor K2006.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    dorpo75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    256

    Re: Green to Clean

    I am no Chem Geek for sure, but I did some checking on the web and came up with this information:

    " PRODUCT INFORMATION

    TRADE NAME: YELLOW OUT
    CHEMICAL NAME:
    SYNONYMS:
    CHEMICAL FAMILY: Inorganic and organic salts
    SECTION II: INGREDIENTS
    Disodium salt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate
    100% (active ingredient) "

    That is directly from this web page http://www.poolwater.com/msds/all/Coral ... %20Out.pdf

    If I have incorrectly posted a web page, please remove the link or let me know the proper way to post a link and I'll be glad to oblige.
    2005 Dimension One Venture model 370 gal. hot tub. We'll be using the TFP method to keep it clean and ready to use!
    TFP - The Finest Phorum on the Net!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Green to Clean

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Coral Seas Yellow Out (MSDS) and Coral Seas Green to Clean (MSDS) both have only a single ingredient of "Disodium salt of ethylenediaminetetraaceticaciddihydratediammoniumsulfate" which is a disodium salt of EDTA with ammonium sulfate. EDTA is sometimes used as a metal sequestrant, though it also has some algae inhibiting properties, but the ammonium sulfate along with chlorine results in monochloramine which kills algae. Both of these will create a significant chlorine demand, but which will drop in matter of days to a week (the monochloramine can be removed with chlorine in hours, but the EDTA takes longer). post192433.html
    The ammonia (ammonium) forms monochloramine, which is not moderated by cyanuric acid. People get algae because they do not maintain enough chlorine relative to their cyanuric acid level. This is more common when the cyanuric acid is high. The ammonia is not necessary to clear the pool of algae. You just have to shock the pool to the proper shock level for your cyanuric acid level.

    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

  4. Back To Top    #4
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Green to Clean

    JamesW has it, that fancy chemical is simply a way to add ammonia. Fighting algae with ammonia is a little tricky, you need to add enough chlorine to form monochloramine, but not enough to continue breaking it down fully. Then, after it has killed the algae, you need to add lots more chlorine to get rid of the monochloramine (which is CC). The whole process has some risks, specifically when you don't add the right amounts of chlorine at the right times. Thus it completely fails the "trouble free" test.

    The big advantage of this approach is that it works when CYA is very high. If you maintain CYA at an appropriate level then there is no point in using this product. And if CYA is too high, then you are better off lowering CYA as a first step and not using this product. The only time this is a big win and worth the trouble is when CYA is really high and there is some compelling reason not to lower CYA.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    317

    Re: Green to Clean

    In a pool with low or very low CYA concentration, would the product be beneficial?

    The product would be beneficial to clear a pool with extremely high CYA level, but the ammonium sulfate would in no way reduce the CYA?

    Within a couple of weeks, the EDTA and the ammonium sulfate level would decline and the Chlorine would again not be able to function because of the high CYA levels?
    A couple more weeks of warm weather with the chlorine concentration that is too low in relation to the CYA level and the algae bloom returns.
    Then we would need to purchase more of the product and start the process again

    If we fix the real problem of high CYA, and maintain the proper Chlorine/CYA level, then there would be no need for these "work around" products?
    poolschoolgrad

    20x40 free-form IG vinyl, 1hp Hayward superpump, Hayward pro grid DE filter, Raypak heatpump, Goldline Aquarite SWCG, Polaris 280 with booster, and tested using a Taylor K2006.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Green to Clean

    In a pool with very low CYA these products are useless, chlorine alone is just as good and much easier to use.

    These products will not change the CYA level up or down. They do add a little sulfate to the water, but that isn't normally an issue.

    It is the ammonia, which combines with chlorine to form monochloramine, that is the active ingredient. The sulfate and EDTA are irrelevant. The effect goes away as soon as you add the second dose of chlorine, breaking down the monochloramine, well before weeks have gone by. CYA remains high the entire time, it is simply that CYA has no effect on monochloramine, which kills algae regardless of CYA just as well as chlorine when it isn't being restrained by CYA.

    Yes, the high CYA level is a problem, and remains a problem, before and after the use of these products. They sell well because many people don't know that, have no idea what their CYA level is and simply notice that chlorine isn't working like it "should".

    Correct, appropriate CYA levels make these products completely irrelevant.

    One additional thing to be aware of, there are two very similar product lines that actually work in completely different ways and are both only useful when CYA is really high and you can't lower it. Green to Clean, Yellow Out, and several others work using ammonia. The other family, The Yellow Stuff, Yellow Klear, Yellow Treat, and others, work using sodium bromide.

    The sodium bromide is activated to bromine with chlorine which again kills algae without being affected by CYA levels. However these products are more troublesome because the bromine turns back into bromide which remains in the water, effectively transforming the pool into a bromine/bromide pool for years to come. Bromine breaks down from sunlight more quickly than chlorine with CYA and there isn't anything like CYA that you can use to compensate, so your chlorine demand goes up more or less permanently.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    317

    Re: Green to Clean

    Thanks for the excellent explanation.

    Have had several people tell me how good these products worked, but I did not understand enough about the products to know when, why or how they work.
    poolschoolgrad

    20x40 free-form IG vinyl, 1hp Hayward superpump, Hayward pro grid DE filter, Raypak heatpump, Goldline Aquarite SWCG, Polaris 280 with booster, and tested using a Taylor K2006.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kannapolis, NC
    Posts
    89

    Re: Green to Clean

    Green to clean in a word sucks!!!!! I was getting realy realy annoyed system wasn't turning to a clear pool now its greener than ever. And I am gonna purchase a cover and call it a year. I have put about 400.00 into my pool this year and nothing. I have a NFP instead of a tfp pool. No Fun Pool
    _________________
    My Pool:
    Foxx Pool Grecian style 19' X 39'
    27k, with a 300# sand filter

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Blackshear
    Posts
    7

    Re: Green to Clean

    Then why are there so many positive reviews dating
    That the product works
    15,000 gallon in ground pool with sand filter; using chlorine; fill with well water with metal trap 25 filter attached to garden hose; also have culator in skimmer basket

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    Donldson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    2,637

    Re: Green to Clean

    Same reason a bunch of people swear you get better mileage if you stick a magnet on your fuel line. Some reviews are outright bought and paid for, some may have dumped it in with a bunch of chlorine and attributed the clearing to the wrong product, and some are just from people who don't like admitting they got duped. It's human nature to refuse to believe you could be wrong, we are all guilty of that. Bottom line, everything JasonLion said about the product is true. It can potentially help in very specific situations but is nothing but a band-aid masking the real issue. TFP is about fixing the problems in a pool, not just hiding them.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

  11. Back To Top    #11

    RonsPlc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gaylesville, AL
    Posts
    360

    Re: Green to Clean

    Welcome to MARKETING!
    14600 gal Intex 24' Round 52" deep AG Pool (Heavily Modified)
    200lb sand filter w/2 speed 1.5/0.5hp pump
    Stenner 45MHP10 Liquid Chlorine (well... bleach) Injector. Borates added.
    K-2006 test kit w/Speedstir
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •